#1 September 9th, 2004 07:08 AM

gtrvox

Member

t shirt slogan

ok, so I'll probably get flamed for this but I could not remain silent. A recent reload contributor, Mary Jane, is wearing a T-shirt with the slogan "PRO DEATH" on it, as well as a bunch of skulls and crossbones. This is shocking to me. How can anyone be walking around wearing something like this? With horrific terrorist acts all around us, with death and starvation and suffering in Africa, with wars everywhere. I mean, it's obscene...I know, I know, "freedom of expression" and all that but what is being expressed here? What kind of stupid, nihilistic, destructive sentiment is this? People in my family suffered and perished in the Holocaust. One should always, always, celebrate life and joy and the mystery of our existence. To a large degree this site is doing precisley that: celbrating the beauty of life and the female form. And that's great. But this one small detail, most likely overlooked by many, really distressed me and I had to share. Of course, Mary Jane herself is a lovely young woman and I enjoyed both her folios....just lose the offensive T shirt

soneil

Member

Re: t shirt slogan

ok, so I'll probably get flamed for this but ...

I don't even want to waste my time responding to this. Get over it. Consider yourself flamed.

gtrvox

Member

Re: t shirt slogan

I don't even want to waste my time responding to this..[/B]

So why do you? I would be interested to hear what you have to say! Flame me with some substantive counter argument

terryb45

Member

Re: t shirt slogan

I have to say that I am in total agreement with you on this point. Unfortunately I am too tired to write what is in my head at the moment but I will say, as I have before on this site, that freedom of speech and expression does carry with it responsibility and also respect. Being among those who lived through the sixties and early seventies most of us appreciated the new freedoms we had one from censorship and such like and were respectful of those freedoms. Unfortunately the likes of soneil don't understand about freedom and just think that it means that you can do what you like. Unfortunately I doubt that Mary Jane even thought about what was on the t-shirt but these slogans have an insidious subconscious impact.

thylacine

Member

Re: t shirt slogan

ok, so I'll probably get flamed for this but I could not remain silent. A recent reload contributor, Mary Jane, is wearing a T-shirt with the slogan "PRO DEATH" on it, as well as a bunch of skulls and crossbones. This is shocking to me. How can anyone be walking around wearing something like this? With horrific terrorist acts all around us, with death and starvation and suffering in Africa, with wars everywhere. I mean, it's obscene...I know, I know, "freedom of expression" and all that but what is being expressed here? What kind of stupid, nihilistic, destructive sentiment is this? People in my family suffered and perished in the Holocaust. One should always, always, celebrate life and joy and the mystery of our existence. To a large degree this site is doing precisley that: celbrating the beauty of life and the female form. And that's great. But this one small detail, most likely overlooked by many, really distressed me and I had to share. Of course, Mary Jane herself is a lovely young woman and I enjoyed both her folios....just lose the offensive T shirt

I haven't seen the pics in question, I'm just a standard member, but I suspect the slogan is intended as an ironic comment on those anti-abortion fanatics who claim to be "pro-life".

Incidentally the official uniform belt of the Spanish Foreign Legion has a buckle consisting of a skull and crossbones, with the motto "Long Live Death" underneath!

soneil

Member

Re: t shirt slogan

I mean, it's obscene...I know, I know, "freedom of expression" and all that but what is being expressed here? What kind of stupid, nihilistic, destructive sentiment is this? People in my family suffered and perished in the Holocaust. One should always, always, celebrate life and joy and the mystery of our existence.

Unfortunately the likes of soneil don't understand about freedom and just think that it means that you can do what you like. Unfortunately I doubt that Mary Jane even thought about what was on the t-shirt but these slogans have an insidious subconscious impact.

First, qtrvox, I have to say that your view and interpretation of the t-shirt is personal and based on your point of view. Unless she chimes in, we have no idea what the shirt means to her if anything. I won't attempt to interpret for her.

As for terryb45 and the 'insidious subconscious impact' shirt slogans could have on the you / the public, I am now thinking of wearing a shirt with the slogan 'Pull Your Head Out' in the hopes that some may heed.

A shirt slogan is just that: words on a shirt. This is one of the essences of Freedom of Expression. By reading it, no one is physically hurt and maybe, just maybe an idea is exchanged.

The mere fact that Mary Jane has posted nude photos of herself here (much less what shirt she started out with) would be considered by some to be 'shocking and obscene' and worthy of an eternity in Hell.

Well, I don't believe that and I'm sure you guys don't believe that but there it is: A personal opinion impasse.

Whatever the meaning of the shirt is, it is worn by the person to express his/her own view. We can agree or disagree but the mere fact that reading the shirt should cause some people to loose sleep is beyond me.

I could respond to terryb45's 'the likes of soneil don't understand about freedom and just think that it means that you can do what you like' comment but like many people, terryb45 has expressed his/her opinion. And like the first, it is a personal view based without having any idea of who 'soneil and the likes of soneil' are.

For those in the dark, the Shirt In Question is Attached.

napthene

Member

Re: t shirt slogan

A recent reload contributor, Mary Jane, is wearing a T-shirt with the slogan "PRO DEATH" on it, as well as a bunch of skulls and crossbones. This is shocking to me. How can anyone be walking around wearing something like this? With horrific terrorist acts all around us, with death and starvation and suffering in Africa, with wars everywhere. I mean, it's obscene...

Clearly, if Mary Jane would only change her shirt, we could end terrorism, the problems in Africa, and war as we know it.

But, no, she gets all on her high horse about freedom of expression, and next thing you know people are flying planes into buildings and committing genocide in the Sudan and cutting AIDS funding to the WHO.

Surely someone should, you know, do something before she puts on a pair of panties saying 'IT WAS ONLY A GOD DAMNED T-SHIRT' and we wind up in a nuclear war.

It's a shirt. And, seriously, check out the irony. You're using the term 'obscene' to describe a t-shirt worn by a girl on a site where you can, with a single click, investigate the labia majora, minora, and holy shit is that a LOLLIPOP of about five thousand other girls.

Dude got issues, if you know what I'm sayin'. And I think you do.

napthene

Member

Re: t shirt slogan

Unfortunately I doubt that Mary Jane even thought about what was on the t-shirt but these slogans have an insidious subconscious impact.

You mean, more of an insidious subconscious impact than her ass, 1024x768, in Kodachrome?

gtrvox

Member

Re: t shirt slogan

[/QUOTE]Dude got issues, if you know what I'm sayin'. And I think you do.[/QUOTE]

with stuff I consider important, I most certainly do. Female bodies are not obscene. Obnoxious slogans are.

onedaddy

Member

Re: t shirt slogan

napthene said *snip* ...and cutting AIDS funding to the WHO *snip*

damn! The Who are getting aids funding?

shutterspeed

Member

Re: t shirt slogan

ok, so I'll probably get flamed for this but I could not remain silent. A recent reload contributor, Mary Jane, is wearing a T-shirt with the slogan "PRO DEATH" on it, as well as a bunch of skulls and crossbones. This is shocking to me. How can anyone be walking around wearing something like this? With horrific terrorist acts all around us, with death and starvation and suffering in Africa, with wars everywhere. I mean, it's obscene...I know, I know, "freedom of expression" and all that but what is being expressed here? What kind of stupid, nihilistic, destructive sentiment is this? People in my family suffered and perished in the Holocaust. One should always, always, celebrate life and joy and the mystery of our existence. To a large degree this site is doing precisley that: celbrating the beauty of life and the female form. And that's great. But this one small detail, most likely overlooked by many, really distressed me and I had to share. Of course, Mary Jane herself is a lovely young woman and I enjoyed both her folios....just lose the offensive T shirt

Holy shit, how do you manage to leave the safe censored confides of the cupboard you obviously live in? It's a t-shirt slogan for Christ's sake! (sorry about the capital C, I certainly hope that doesn't rock your afternoon). I honestly thought that pissy, whinging, superficial people like you were a generation of the past, however it looks like t.v, radio, the net and any other form of media or expressive art can look forward to hearing from you everytime they go outside your incredibly tight boundries. I have t-shirts that say all kinds of stupid shit, and I didn't buy them because I was making a statement, I just like stupid stuff and upsetting dimwits like yourself! For all you know its probably a slogan promoting death metal, but again, . . . . who gives a shit! And the holocaust thing, well I should have guessed; there was recently an artwork removed from a window in Melbourne's c.b.d because people like you didn't like it so it had to go.You want some advice? Cover your ears and shut your eyes from now on and you wont be upset by anything, and maybe we can all hang on to our freedom from wankers like you for a little longer! Viva la I.S.M!!

gtrvox

Member

Re: t shirt slogan

Holy shit, how do you manage to leave the safe censored confides of the cupboard you obviously live in? It's a t-shirt slogan for Christ's sake! (sorry about the capital C, I certainly hope that doesn't rock your afternoon). I honestly thought that pissy, whinging, superficial people like you were a generation of the past, however it looks like t.v, radio, the net and any other form of media or expressive art can look forward to hearing from you everytime they go outside your incredibly tight boundries. I have t-shirts that say all kinds of stupid shit, and I didn't buy them because I was making a statement, I just like stupid stuff and upsetting dimwits like yourself! For all you know its probably a slogan promoting death metal, but again, . . . . who gives a shit! And the holocaust thing, well I should have guessed; there was recently an artwork removed from a window in Melbourne's c.b.d because people like you didn't like it so it had to go.You want some advice? Cover your ears and shut your eyes from now on and you wont be upset by anything, and maybe we can all hang on to our freedom from wankers like you for a little longer! Viva la I.S.M!!

Do you feel better now? Calling me names? Did you see any offensive language in my post? I won't lower myself to your level - all I can say is this: freedom of expression does not mean freedom to mindlessly offend. If you think that a "PRO DEATH" slogan is not offensive then you should perhaps stop hurling abuse at other people and examine your own values

terryb45

Member

Re: t shirt slogan

Holy shit, how do you manage to leave the safe censored confides of the cupboard you obviously live in? It's a t-shirt slogan for Christ's sake! (sorry about the capital C, I certainly hope that doesn't rock your afternoon). I honestly thought that pissy, whinging, superficial people like you were a generation of the past, however it looks like t.v, radio, the net and any other form of media or expressive art can look forward to hearing from you everytime they go outside your incredibly tight boundries. I have t-shirts that say all kinds of stupid shit, and I didn't buy them because I was making a statement, I just like stupid stuff and upsetting dimwits like yourself! For all you know its probably a slogan promoting death metal, but again, . . . . who gives a shit! And the holocaust thing, well I should have guessed; there was recently an artwork removed from a window in Melbourne's c.b.d because people like you didn't like it so it had to go.You want some advice? Cover your ears and shut your eyes from now on and you wont be upset by anything, and maybe we can all hang on to our freedom from wankers like you for a little longer! Viva la I.S.M!!

I think you have made our point admirably out of your own foul little mouth. Why apologise for the capital 'C' - either erase it or live with your blaspemy!

Belgareth

Member

Re: t shirt slogan

I think you have made our point admirably out of your own foul little mouth. Why apologise for the capital 'C' - either erase it or live with your blaspemy!

I am at a loss to understand why, in any group of people (of any age, sex, creed or colour) a discussion will always degenerate into a slanging match.

Most of this thead has absolutly nothing to do with the raison d'etre of ISM. Can we just please drop this all together keep our negative thoughts to ourselves. We have lovely ladies (and the odd gent) displaying their equally lovely bodies for our delectation, why not focus on that aspect. and leave the battles in the Usenet groups?

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[color="Red"]require "help.pl";[/color]

shutterspeed

Member

Re: t shirt slogan

Do you feel better now? Calling me names? Did you see any offensive language in my post? I won't lower myself to your level - all I can say is this: freedom of expression does not mean freedom to mindlessly offend. If you think that a "PRO DEATH" slogan is not offensive then you should perhaps stop hurling abuse at other people and examine your own values

Bravo.

shutterspeed

Member

Re: t shirt slogan

I think you have made our point admirably out of your own foul little mouth. Why apologise for the capital 'C' - either erase it or live with your blaspemy!

You have obviously missed the point of the capital C. Nothing to do with blasphemy, and foul little mouth? You mean to tell me you never say shit or wanker? There seems to be a lot of hypocracy from people on this site when it comes to what is ok to be seen on the screen and what isnt.

shannon

Administrator

Re: t shirt slogan

*trying to diffuse the tension*

saay..  how about those [insert name of popular sporting team or club]?

BillyBear

Member

Re: t shirt slogan

*trying to diffuse the tension*

saay..  how about those [insert name of popular sporting team or club]?

Red Sox

Head

Administrator

Re: t shirt slogan

*trying to diffuse the tension*

saay..  how about those [insert name of popular sporting team or club]?

Quit pulling the plug on the bloodbath!

synergy

Member

Re: t shirt slogan

[QUOTE=gtrvox]ok, so I'll probably get flamed for this but I could not remain silent. A recent reload contributor, Mary Jane, is wearing a T-shirt with the slogan "PRO DEATH" on it, as well as a bunch of skulls and crossbones. This is shocking to me. How can anyone be walking around wearing something like this? With horrific terrorist acts all around us, with death and starvation and suffering in Africa, with wars everywhere<snip rest of comment>

Actually, 'Pro Death' has become an accepted term for people who believe in peoples rights to; Suicide, Assisted Suicide, Abortion, Eating Meat, The Death Penalty for Convicted Criminals, etc.
Not all 'Pro Deather's support all of those things, I might add. But it is possible the slogan on the tshirt was this form of 'pro-death'.

It is also possible that it is an injoke betweek friends.
It is also possible that it is just a funky tishirt and she didnt think about the slogan one way or another.
Who knows? Mary Jane knows. And we should all reserve judgement on such thnigs until we hear from her on the subject. Wouldn't you agree?

synergy

Member

Re: t shirt slogan

ooh, and look at me screw up the quote tags good and proper there. *grin*