#1 February 7th, 2006 03:51 AM

gala

Member

comment warfare

we've been talking a lot about the "comment" function on the site - we had that big thread about how to tell the models they make you hot without upsetting them, and then the recent issue with users leaving less-than-constructive criticism on delilah's folio, and now there's a mini-debate about shaving on cosmopolitan's folio: "you wouldn't shave your head, so why shave your mound?"  i'm not sure i think that's an appropriate thing to say to an ism gal.  the artist offered up a piece of herself as she is, as she wants to be seen.  i don't think it should become a space for questioning someone's personal grooming politics (or a lack thereof).  variety and self-control (at least on the models' part...) are part of the whole vibe of ism.  so leaving negative or challenging comments about a contributor's body hair, tattoos, piercings, etc. seems not to contribute to that vibe (for lack of a much better word).  i personally agree that it's important for me to think about the modifications i perform on myself, but not all people experience that, and i don't think it's any of the sponsors' jobs to call them into question with our models.  but this again goes into some of the censorship issues that have been brought up vehemently in other discussions about deleting comments, etc. 

i realize that on the "how do we tell you we lust after you" thread, i said that models should be prepared to deal with people lusting and/or wankin to their photos and getting all hot to pop.  and that when that's expressed much more delicate terms in the comments, those comments should be allowed to stay / should not be cause for offense.  but now i am saying that there are some other comments, such as the ones described above, that models shouldn't have to deal with.  i guess i am distinguishing between expressions of desire (however awkward they may be to articulate) and expressions of distaste or politics of body modification.  not every model's look is necessarily going to appeal to everyone.  i think body modification is part of that appearance, just as much as hair color or shape.  if one of these appearances doesn't appeal to you for whatever reason, you can click that little x in your window and move on. 

so, am i creating a double standard for comments?  or are there some that are laying some uninvited ideological criticism upon the contributors who choose to modify or go "natural"?  and should these be considered to be out of line with the ethics and policies of the site? 

the comment war continues (as far as anything on this site can be described as combative)....

Belgareth

Member

Re: comment warfare

we've been talking a lot about the "comment" function on the site - we had that big thread about how to tell the models they make you hot without upsetting them, and then the recent issue with users leaving less-than-constructive criticism on delilah's folio, and now there's a mini-debate about shaving on cosmopolitan's folio: "you wouldn't shave your head, so why shave your mound?"  i'm not sure i think that's an appropriate thing to say to an ism gal.  the artist offered up a piece of herself as she is, as she wants to be seen.  i don't think it should become a space for questioning someone's personal grooming politics (or a lack thereof).  variety and self-control (at least on the models' part...) are part of the whole vibe of ism.  so leaving negative or challenging comments about a contributor's body hair, tattoos, piercings, etc. seems not to contribute to that vibe (for lack of a much better word).  i personally agree that it's important for me to think about the modifications i perform on myself, but not all people experience that, and i don't think it's any of the sponsors' jobs to call them into question with our models.  but this again goes into some of the censorship issues that have been brought up vehemently in other discussions about deleting comments, etc. 

i realize that on the "how do we tell you we lust after you" thread, i said that models should be prepared to deal with people lusting and/or wankin to their photos and getting all hot to pop.  and that when that's expressed much more delicate terms in the comments, those comments should be allowed to stay / should not be cause for offense.  but now i am saying that there are some other comments, such as the ones described above, that models shouldn't have to deal with.  i guess i am distinguishing between expressions of desire (however awkward they may be to articulate) and expressions of distaste or politics of body modification.  not every model's look is necessarily going to appeal to everyone.  i think body modification is part of that appearance, just as much as hair color or shape.  if one of these appearances doesn't appeal to you for whatever reason, you can click that little x in your window and move on. 

so, am i creating a double standard for comments?  or are there some that are laying some uninvited ideological criticism upon the contributors who choose to modify or go "natural"?  and should these be considered to be out of line with the ethics and policies of the site? 

the comment war continues (as far as anything on this site can be described as combative)....

The various components of your post have been covered numerous times over the years in this forum but that doesn't mean that I object to the issue(s) being raised again and I don't think that you are creating a double standard.

I could take an approach which states "don't post anything in the folio comments which you would not say to the contributor in person". Unfortunately that assumes that everyone has similar standards and I doubt that. There are differing social standards in different countries and in (dare I say it) differing classes of society. I believe that, in general, ISM is doing a good job of self-policing by the management, the contributors and the members. If a comment is made which is deemed to be out-of-order, it is pulled by the management and/or heavily criticised by the contributors and the members. I'm not sure of what more can be done, given the site's global coverage, so all I can ask is the people are considerate toward the contributors when commenting on their folios.

I can only comment and constructively criticise using my own standards as my yardstick and appreciate that others will most certainly will have a different set of standards.

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blissed

Member

Re: comment warfare

The comments section: post compliments if you have them and constructive suggestions, If your humour is illjudged you can always apologise.

The forum: is where you can say I don't like tattoos or short hair if you also have good things to say to a contributor. Or express your preferences on their own as a general statement.

Everyone makes errors of judgement and mistakes, but the very very best thing you can do is apologise and recognise you've hurt someone and that your sorry.
I really think we should extend a welcome to people who can do that.

.

eGomer

Member

Re: comment warfare

I started the thread about sometimes wanting to tell the contributors how her filio makes me feel (ie when she turns me on), which I think is quite different from telling them how she should groom herself.

My issue was about wanting to give her what I intended as a compliment (how her sexiness made me feel) but which she might take as vulgar or creepy or invasive, and which the ISM site might censor.

These recent issues have been about making subjective judgemental remarks about the contributor's grooming, or about specific parts of her body.

I'm real big on honesty, but that doesn't mean that I feel the need to express everything I feel or believe or think.

I do kind of detest pure bullshit (false politeness, "something nice" which I don't really feel, an obligatory compliment, or even a watered down version of the truth).

But I don't think there is nothing wrong with keeping one's mouth shut, which I would do if a contributor had the courage to "put herself out there" on the site, but I didn't happen to care for her appearance or her style or her grooming choices.

I actually have a preference about pubic hair, which I might reveal in a comment to a model who reflected that preference, but I would never tell a contributor that she "should" shave if she is bushy or that she "should" grow a bush if she is bald... similarly I have preferences about piercings and tattoos and make-up, which I think I would comment on in the positive only. Those are deliberate choices the contributor has made about their bodies... none of my business.

This ain't American Idol, and I ain't a judge.

romeodeaux

Member

Re: comment warfare

we've been talking a lot about the "comment" function on the site - we had that big thread about how to tell the models they make you hot without upsetting them, and then the recent issue with users leaving less-than-constructive criticism on delilah's folio, and now there's a mini-debate about shaving on cosmopolitan's folio:

Here !, here!. i totally agree gala. Although i have my personal preferences , i wouldn't want the variety here to be lost. If a girl isn't my type i just don't comment . - And when i see a girl with certain attributes which i love, which  are ignored, and go uncelebrated in the media, & society, - which i personally like, e.g. a flat chest. I go out of my way to let them know there are blokes out there, me for one, - who absolutely adore and are turned on by that. An interesting consequence of my joining ISM, is that the type of girls that i find attractive has expanded. And that is due to the variety of personality and body-types on show in this unique, virtual environment. i just want the girls to be totally free and comfortable expressing their sexuality anyway they choose , without any fear of humiliation or physical criticism. There should be no downside to their ISM experience in terms of Comments .This not only the decent thing to do, but also smart.- Because this is the nourishing, safe environment in which those  'ISM, one-off wonders ' can blossom. For me personally aforesaid 'ISM, one-off wonders ', And the fact that ISM Girls are the theatrical directors, and creative technicians, of their own shots,- are what make ISM unique  .

Going off topic. In terms of variety i do however have this reservation. When i first joined ISM,  i was so overwhelmed by the gorgeousness of many of the girls, that i didn't notice the narrow age range. I always thought not just girls, but women, would turn up eventually. But then then it began to occur to me that they never would. Which I've got used to. But in Real life I tend to fantasise about women in the 24 to 32 age range.- RomeoBeaux

liandra_dahl

Member

Re: comment warfare

I always thought not just girls, but women, would turn up eventually. But then then it began to occur to me that they never would. Which I've got used to. But in Real life I tend to fantasise about women in the 24 to 32 age range.- RomeoBeaux

there are most definitely women on here in that age range. here is a list of a few;

arkie
violette
yoga girl
outofmyshell
silver
cetacea
katrina
zille
schpookie

SCSIgirl

Member

Re: comment warfare

we've been talking a lot about the "comment" function on the site - we had that big thread about how to tell the models they make you hot without upsetting them, and then the recent issue with users leaving less-than-constructive criticism on delilah's folio, and now there's a mini-debate about shaving on cosmopolitan's folio: "you wouldn't shave your head, so why shave your mound?" 

>>>snipped for brevity<<<

the comment war continues (as far as anything on this site can be described as combative)....

Bear in mind,  not just Gala,  but Gomer et all,  that there are two different formats here.  The forums tend to have people who have thought out what they want to say and are involved in on-going discussions.  The comments section is the "bathroom wall".  Every drunk redneck will comment.  The ISM operatives have to sleep sometime,  usually during the Aussie night.  Crude comments aren't caught until someone comes to work the next morning.

There will always be wrong remarks posted in the folios comment section.  It can't be stopped or controlled.  Just deleted after found.  And chastising them in the comments OR the forums does no good as they most likely will not return to a folio they didn't like to re-read comments.

As for me,  I just slather over the ones I like.  ;-}

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"Apple of my Eye", "bated breath", "brave new world", "caught red-handed" - all coined by Shakespeare.

romeodeaux

Member

Re: comment warfare

there are most definitely women on here in that age range. here is a list of a few;

arkie
violette
yoga girl
outofmyshell
silver
cetacea
katrina
zille
schpookie

Hi there liandra!. Thanks for the Info. - Appreciated!.    RomeoBeaux.

calibre

Member

Re: comment warfare

One of my most favourite comments on one of my sets was from a gentleman that admitted that he was a fan of 'au naturale' girls (of which himself, and i most certainly agree is a genre that i do not fit) but it seemed that my look challenged him to appreciate 'modified' girls aswell.. i really appreciate that.

Oh, and RomeoBeaux, I fully intend to keep contributing to ISM when I am in the 24-32 year old age range

jdudley76

Member

Re: comment warfare

I don't think you are setting a double standard. ISM is a form of "pull" media. That is, you have to go out looking for it, and pull it to you, as opposed to "push" media, like advertising. By that fact alone, observers do not have a right to complain about the content, as they asked to see it. Thus the point you made about the "x" button is very approriate.

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"This foreign policy stuff is a little frustrating."   - George W. Bush, as quoted by the New York Daily News, April 23, 2002

maxi

Member

Re: comment warfare

Don't mums say- if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all.
That said a bit of forum fisticuffs could be interesting. I bet most of the ISM girls are tough and clever and could forum whip some arses. I for one will take someone, anyone on (you can't see me cry anyway!!!)

Belgareth

Member

Re: comment warfare

Don't mums say- if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all.
That said a bit of forum fisticuffs could be interesting. I bet most of the ISM girls are tough and clever and could forum whip some arses. I for one will take someone, anyone on (you can't see me cry anyway!!!)

In principle I agree with the mums. However this forum has certainly whipped up some fury at various times and most of it has been focused on the very topic of this thread!

The one great thing about this forum is that it is not sexist, ageist or any else ..ist. and is a about as level a playing field as one could reasonably expect, with all of the girls at one end and all of the guys at the same end ;-)

The ISM girls continue to prove that they are not just (for want of a better expression) tits and ass and are perfectly able to argue a case, when it comes to a contributor or a member being unfairly criticised.

Long live ISM!!

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jdudley76

Member

Re: comment warfare

Don't mums say- if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all.
That said a bit of forum fisticuffs could be interesting. I bet most of the ISM girls are tough and clever and could forum whip some arses. I for one will take someone, anyone on (you can't see me cry anyway!!!)

Not sure I'd be interested in fisticuffs, but if you were to suggest wrestling, especially if it's nude and in some sort of slippery substance, you're on! ;o)

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"This foreign policy stuff is a little frustrating."   - George W. Bush, as quoted by the New York Daily News, April 23, 2002

blissed

Member

Re: comment warfare

Don't mums say- if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all.
That said a bit of forum fisticuffs could be interesting. I bet most of the ISM girls are tough and clever and could forum whip some arses. I for one will take someone, anyone on (you can't see me cry anyway!!!)

I vote we all have a love in instead

.

calibre

Member

Re: comment warfare

maxi.. im with you

Honestly.. i think most of the girls who submit regularly have copped a fair bit of flack and nothing is new.. but i we've all learnt to brush it off some way or another.. there are so many different reasons why people would go out of their way to insult another when they are in a vulnerable situation.. Fear, Misunderstanding, Jealousy, low self-confidence (so they have to take it out on others).. i think firstly it's important that if you are going to do work like this, understand that people will make these comments but its not always because they just think u dont look any good.. it's usually deeper.

Girls, do you seperate yourself from your 'character' when you shoot yourself?

dmbhead

Member

Re: comment warfare

Don't mums say- if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all.
That said a bit of forum fisticuffs could be interesting. I bet most of the ISM girls are tough and clever and could forum whip some arses. I for one will take someone, anyone on (you can't see me cry anyway!!!)

Take me on, Take me on!  Shit, I blew the context of this thread.

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What the duece?

maxi

Member

Re: comment warfare

maxi.. im with you
Girls, do you seperate yourself from your 'character' when you shoot yourself?

I certainly can't Calibre! I tried but even when I pretend its still me pretending. Do you?

maxi

Member

Re: comment warfare

Not sure I'd be interested in fisticuffs, but if you were to suggest wrestling, especially if it's nude and in some sort of slippery substance, you're on! ;o)

Hmm jdudley I think that in your current form I'm not sure that you can do slippery substances, but gosh, you are mighty cute!