#26 January 21st, 2006 03:44 PM

SCSIgirl

Member

Re: While you were sleeping

I will now appologise to SCSIgirl for high-jacking his thread to have my rant.

That will cost you three Zille hugs and two Liandra kisses.  Send the coupons immediately!!

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"Apple of my Eye", "bated breath", "brave new world", "caught red-handed" - all coined by Shakespeare.

blissed

Member

Re: While you were sleeping

I resently heard (though I don't remember where) that when you go to sleep, it's not so much parts of your brain shutting down, as it is different parts loosing their connections to one another.

Yeah, I think this is true. I don't suppose your brain could ever shut down or you'd be dead. Or watching TV. Actually watching TV is  A trance like state, a bit like meditating. Stuff is going into your brain, being classified and then committed to memory. So I think dreaming is a bit like watching TV. A trance like state where the content is produced by your subconscious mind, the inputs from your senses are disconnected and replaced by a display of your own subconscious. Yes I think that explains things and I can now consider myself an expert

jdudley76

Member

Re: While you were sleeping

Sorry Cynicism, I must have been asleep and missed this post of yours. You obviously appreciated my slightly blunt wit (or maybe it was a double-edge sword ;-) )

I have a problem with the measurement of intelligence. The only thing intelligence tests prove is whether or not you can do intelligence tests. However, I am always drawn into debate when it comes to any comparision of intellects. I find that degrees of stupidity are measured by subjective social yardstick, rather than objective one and, consequently, mistakes are often made.

It is frequently conjectured that people who are born with Down's Syndrome or Autism are afflicted with "mental retardation" (I really dislike the expression but that's what the dictionaries use) and appear stupid. Yes, there is indication that those people have vivid dreams, that they are often self-absorbed and have little regard for others but that description could also be said to fit other social misfits - lager louts and football hooligans spring to mind

In my own experience these disorders cause people to behave differently but they frequently exhibit levels of intellect far superior to the norm and once you find the right subject , the conversations, at times, can be more exhilarating than the ones I have with supposedly "normal" people.

Shifting back to the more mundane, a number of years ago I was dealing with someone who had absorbed neither the ability to read and write nor carry out any mathematical calculation whilst at school. He was considered, by his peers, to be stupid. This could not have been further from the truth as he could calculate betting odds at lightning speed (although he didn't know how). He became a very successful and affluent turf accountant.

I will now appologise to SCSIgirl for high-jacking his thread to have my rant.

I have to agree with you here. There was an interesting article in the December issue of Scientific American on Kim Peek (a savant who was the inspiration for the movie "Rain Man"). According to the article, Kim's overall IQ score was tested as being at 87. Yet, "Kim began memorizing books at the age of 18 months, as they were read to him. He has learned 9,000 books by heart so far. He reads a page in 8 to 10 seconds and places the memorized book upside down on the shelf to signify that it is now on his mental 'hard drive.' .... He knows all the area codes and zip codes in the U.S., together with the television stations serving those locales. He learns the maps in the front of phone books and can provide Yahoo-like travel directions within any major U.S. city or between any pair of them. He can identify hundreds of classical compositions, tell when and where each was composed and first performed, give the name of the composer and many biographical details, and even discuss the formal and tonal components of the music. Most intriguing of all, he appears to be developing a new skill in middle life. Whereas before he could merely talk about music, for the past two years he has been learning to play it. It is an amazing feat in light of his severe developmental problems - characteristics shared, in varying extents by all savants. He walks with a sidelong gait, cannot button his clothes, cannot manage the chores of daily life and has great difficulties with abstraction."

I think Kim Peek and other savants like him prove that intelligence is much more complex than can be described by a single number.

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"This foreign policy stuff is a little frustrating."   - George W. Bush, as quoted by the New York Daily News, April 23, 2002

alisha_x

Member

Re: While you were sleeping

I completely agree with intellegence not being linked to a numbger like IQ,

For one thing it prides mathmatical and letter puzzle solving over things like common sense and secondly i myself am quite stupid according to IQ tests due to dyslexia although I got an A in English literature, art, sciences and history at GCSE, in fact, dispite being so stupid I have never recieved a grade lower than a C at any level or any subject.... Similar is true of my brother who had great trouble writing anything (letters backwards, writing diagonally, unreadable writing etc) even now but he sucessfully rebuilt a broken VCR when was about 11 and is now doing a special effects degree at university.

Intellegence is a relative measure that people try to ptu absolutes on, a man who can memorise a book or knows many facts and calculates equations fast but cannot button his shirt is intellegent by the standards of the IQ test. I do wish they would at least widen it out to several numbers for different kinds of intellegence,a genius who has never been taught to do triganomatry is not an idiot if he cant do it, the measurement being used is just too narrow.

I would like to see common sense, rationanlity, creativity and so on invlved as well as the predominantly mathmatical and letter/shape based logical questions, but of ccourse those are things you cant really measure and we are full circle to the beginning again :s

Does anyoen know if any studies have been done relating percieved intellegence to sleep patterns/dream types/sleepdisorders etc? I would be iteresting to see if genius dream more intellegent dreams

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Kisses,

Alisha

Xxx

http://www.alishax.com

cynicism

Member

Re: While you were sleeping

The old-fashioned IQ numbers are far from "state of the art" when it comes to the study of intelligences. It is now acknowledged that there are a wide variety of intelligences. Word manipulation is merely one of them. Spatial relationships is another. Mathematics involves more than one.

It would be nice to think that there was some points scale on which one might score low in one attribute but higher in another (fewer points in charisma means more in strength?) but it's not that simple. The original IQ was constructed in the belief that if one scored high in one attribute one scored high in all - that wasn't true, either, of course.

What was my point? Hmm - I wonder if short-term memory is one of the attributes? :-)

liandra_dahl

Member

Re: While you were sleeping

That will cost you three Zille hugs and two Liandra kisses.  Send the coupons immediately!!

In order to get such rewards one must pass a rigorous test designed by Zille and myself to assess all your different intelligences and physical capabilities... and you must do it all in your sleep...

SCSIgirl

Member

Re: While you were sleeping

I completely agree with intellegence not being linked to a numbger like IQ,

For one thing it prides mathmatical and letter puzzle solving over things like common sense and secondly i myself am quite stupid according to IQ tests due to dyslexia although I got an A in English literature, art, sciences and history at GCSE, in fact, dispite being so stupid I have never recieved a grade lower than a C at any level or any subject.... Similar is true of my brother who had great trouble writing anything (letters backwards, writing diagonally, unreadable writing etc) even now but he sucessfully rebuilt a broken VCR when was about 11 and is now doing a special effects degree at university.

Intellegence is a relative measure that people try to ptu absolutes on, a man who can memorise a book or knows many facts and calculates equations fast but cannot button his shirt is intellegent by the standards of the IQ test. I do wish they would at least widen it out to several numbers for different kinds of intellegence,a genius who has never been taught to do triganomatry is not an idiot if he cant do it, the measurement being used is just too narrow.

I would like to see common sense, rationanlity, creativity and so on invlved as well as the predominantly mathmatical and letter/shape based logical questions, but of ccourse those are things you cant really measure and we are full circle to the beginning again :s

Does anyoen know if any studies have been done relating percieved intellegence to sleep patterns/dream types/sleepdisorders etc? I would be iteresting to see if genius dream more intellegent dreams

I remember several years ago,  the powers that be, were going to establish an EQ (Emotional Quotient).  This number was determined on how well one interacts with others.  Many successfull people got that way because of their ability to lead,  rather than their intelligence.  But it never seemed to take off or become an established standard.

It's also interesting to note that Mensa has many janitors amoung it's ranks.

A man got a flat tire in front of the insane asylum.  In spite of the jeering from the inmates at the fence,  he calmly jacked up his car,  pulled the hub cap, took off all the lug nuts and placed them in the upside down hub cap, and changed the tire  (tyre?).  When he reached to get the lug nuts,  he accidently tipped the hub cap and all the nuts rolled out and down the storm drain.

He stood there perplexed as to what to do when one of the inmates spoke up.  "Hey fella", said the inmate, "why don't you take one lug nut off the other three wheels and use them?  That should hold until you can get to a repair station."

"That's a pretty good idea", said the man.  "Why are you in there?"

"Hey" said the inmate, "I'm crazy, not stupid".

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"Apple of my Eye", "bated breath", "brave new world", "caught red-handed" - all coined by Shakespeare.

SCSIgirl

Member

Re: While you were sleeping

In order to get such rewards one must pass a rigorous test designed by Zille and myself to assess all your different intelligences and physical capabilities... and you must do it all in your sleep...

I hope that includes snoreing,  because that is the only thing I do well in my sleep.

---

"Apple of my Eye", "bated breath", "brave new world", "caught red-handed" - all coined by Shakespeare.

jdudley76

Member

Re: While you were sleeping

In order to get such rewards one must pass a rigorous test designed by Zille and myself to assess all your different intelligences and physical capabilities... and you must do it all in your sleep...

Sounds difficult, but worth a shot! What have I got to loose? ;o)

---

"This foreign policy stuff is a little frustrating."   - George W. Bush, as quoted by the New York Daily News, April 23, 2002

alisha_x

Member

Re: While you were sleeping

"Hey" said the inmate, "I'm crazy, not stupid".

ROTFL

Xxx

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Kisses,

Alisha

Xxx

http://www.alishax.com

LeoBloom

Member

Re: While you were sleeping

Years ago my girlfriend had drifted of to sleep one afternoon after we'd made love. I started wondering about the connection between dreams and external reality - ie whether sounds and sensations can affect the sleeper - and started very gently frigging her, wondering whether I could induce an erotic dream in her. When she awoke she had no memory of a dream, but had a strong sense of physical wellbeing. When I told her what I'd done she was excited enough to want to make love again.
But on this subject surely Byron should have the last word:

An infant when it gazes on the light,
  A child the moment when it drains the breast,
A devotee when soars the Host in sight,
   An Arab with a stranger for a guest,
A sailor when the prize has struck in flight,
   A miser filling his most hoarded chest
Feel rapture, but not such true joy are reaping
As they who watch o’er what they love while sleeping.

For there it lies so tranquil, so beloved;
   All that it hath of life with us is living,
So gentle, stirless, helpless, and unmoved,
   And all unconscious of the joy ‘tis giving.
All it hath felt, inflicted, passed, and proved,
    Hushed into depths beyond the watcher’s diving,
There lies the thing we love with all its errors
And all its charms, like death without its terrors.

(Don Juan, II, 196-97)

SCSIgirl

Member

Re: While you were sleeping

I completely agree with intellegence not being linked to a numbger like IQ,   <<snipped for brevity >>>

Sorry to re-open this old thread,  but a news story came out yesterday that applied.

Associated Press
GREECE, N.Y. - Jason McElwain had done everything he was asked to do for the Greece Athena High School basketball team - keep the stats, run the clock, hand out water bottles.

That all changed last week for the team manager in the final home game of the season. The 17-year-old senior, who is autistic and usually sits on the bench in a white shirt and black tie, put on a uniform and entered the game with his team way ahead.

McElwain proceeded to hit six 3-point shots, finished with 20 points and was carried off the court on his teammates' shoulders.

"I ended my career on the right note," he told The Associated Press by phone Thursday. "I was really hotter than a pistol!"

In recent days, McElwain's phone has hardly stopped ringing. When his family went out for a meal, he was mobbed by well-wishers. A neighborhood boy came by to get a basketball autographed.

McElwain, 5-foot-6, was considered too small to make the junior varsity, so he signed on as team manager. He took up the same role with the varsity, doing anything to stay near the sport he loves. Coach Jim Johnson was impressed with his dedication, and thought about suiting up McElwain for the home finale.

His performance was jaw-dropping: 20 points in four minutes, making 6-of-10 3-point shots. The crowd went wild.

"It was as touching as any moment I have ever had in sports," Johnson told the Daily Messenger of Canandaigua.

McElwain didn't begin speaking until he was 5. He lacked social skills but things got easier as he got older. He found many friends and made his way through school in this Rochester suburb, although many of his classes were limited to a half-dozen students. And he found basketball.

On the varsity, he never misses practice and is a jack-of-all-trades.

"And he is happy to do it," Johnson said. "He is such a great help and is well-liked by everyone on the team."

This story goes on,  but you get the gist of it.  Full story is at AP.

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"Apple of my Eye", "bated breath", "brave new world", "caught red-handed" - all coined by Shakespeare.