#1 January 10th, 2006 11:26 AM

liandra_dahl

Member

Joining the Circus

Hey there forumites

I'm so excited I just thought I would tell everyone here as well as everyone else I know. I've been on the waiting list to join the Melbourne women's circus and I got a letter just recently inviting me to train with them! HORAAH! I've also taken up sea kayaking, but I can't do it as often as I would like, because I have a job to do, a degree to complete, and a child to raise ;-) I'm going for upper body strength...I think I've said this before, and it is my motto for 2006...every woman should be able to do at least one pull up, incase she should ever be dangling over a precipice one day in need to pull herself to safety. Also, perhaps you may be one handed dangling in previous mentioned predicament, so a one handed pull up should be essential too, then of course I have a child, and should I be hanging on to her with my other hand I should need to be able to lift my own weight plus hers...so you see why the emphasis on upper body strength...it all makes perfect sense... it is also going to come in handy with opening jars and mundane stuff like that.

Anyway, I know most men are vaguely repulsed by women with muscle bulk, they can only handle slight definition...where do you all stand on this?

eGomer

Member

Re: Joining the Circus

Hey there forumites

Anyway, I know most men are vaguely repulsed by women with muscle bulk, they can only handle slight definition...where do you all stand on this?

Congratulations! Sounds like your plate is pretty full! What will you do in the circus?

As for your question re muscles and definition, I would say this, for myself:

If I've learned anything from ISM, it is that the breadth of female beauty, from concept and ideal to  physical reality, is damn near infinite. What variation in the many attributes of the female form hasn't been shown to be beautiful beyond a shadow of a doubt on ISM?

Practically every time I peruse the folios, I'm blown away once again by what I see, and I ask myself, My God, how many differnt ways are there for a woman to be beautiful?

And I think we've only scratched the surface!

Surely, even if my preconcievied notions about feminine beauty might initially resist it, there must be thousands of ways for a firm, muscular, sinewy, lean but bulky, strong, focused, fit woman to be inspirational, awesome, attractive, beautiful, and sexy.

I'm anxious to see the kind of "bulky" women with good upper body strength that you describe on ISM... And it will be comforting to know that if they hang around cliffs and precipices, they'll be able to take care of themselves in case they find themselves dangling.

cynicism

Member

Re: Joining the Circus

I have no problem with women who have strong arms, but there's a limit. You may have seen photo shoots of some of the female body builders who have gone ridiculously far. They no longer look female (their breasts have diminished to nothing, their buttocks are angular). This may well be due to the drugs they were taking - steroids, testosterone, ...

Whatever you do, stay female!

blissed

Member

Re: Joining the Circus

As far as I know you can build upper body strength without bulking by using lighter weights and high repetitions. My libido is turned off by muscle , even muscle definition. But I think you've just got to go with the body shape your most comfortable with. Though if you follow my expert advice you could still be strong and look feminine. The circus looks interesting. It'd be nice if they took some exerpts from the documentary about them and used them as clips on the net. Then people could get a flavour of what their all about. You always seem to apply yourself to something you really like doing, so I think your going to enjoy it. Good luck with it.

catt

Member

Re: Joining the Circus

I think I've said this before, and it is my motto for 2006...every woman should be able to do at least one pull up, incase she should ever be dangling over a precipice one day in need to pull herself to safety.

I love this, Liandra. 

xxCattxx

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the beauty of simplicity is the complexity it attracts.

voyeur2

Member

Re: Joining the Circus

Hey there forumites

Anyway, I know most men are vaguely repulsed by women with muscle bulk, they can only handle slight definition...where do you all stand on this?

Do yout thing.  All you really need are the people who like you as you are.

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Have I ever lied to you before?

Belgareth

Member

Re: Joining the Circus

Hey there forumites

I'm so excited I just thought I would tell everyone here as well as everyone else I know. I've been on the waiting list to join the Melbourne women's circus and I got a letter just recently inviting me to train with them! HORAAH! I've also taken up sea kayaking, but I can't do it as often as I would like, because I have a job to do, a degree to complete, and a child to raise ;-) I'm going for upper body strength...I think I've said this before, and it is my motto for 2006...every woman should be able to do at least one pull up, incase she should ever be dangling over a precipice one day in need to pull herself to safety. Also, perhaps you may be one handed dangling in previous mentioned predicament, so a one handed pull up should be essential too, then of course I have a child, and should I be hanging on to her with my other hand I should need to be able to lift my own weight plus hers...so you see why the emphasis on upper body strength...it all makes perfect sense... it is also going to come in handy with opening jars and mundane stuff like that.

Anyway, I know most men are vaguely repulsed by women with muscle bulk, they can only handle slight definition...where do you all stand on this?

For me, it isn't a case of whether I am turned on or turned off by muscle definition but a case of accepting that it is something that people wish to do, which causes no harm to others and therefore, something that I simply accept.

If you can develop the ability to lift your own weight, plus that of your child, with one arm, why bother opening jars? You could terrify any male around into opening them for you ;-)

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SCSIgirl

Member

Re: Joining the Circus

Hey there forumites

I'm so excited I just thought I would tell everyone here as well as everyone else I know. I've been on the waiting list to join the Melbourne women's circus and I got a letter just recently inviting me to train with them! HORAAH! I've also taken up sea kayaking, but I can't do it as often as I would like, because I have a job to do, a degree to complete, and a child to raise ;-) I'm going for upper body strength...I think I've said this before, and it is my motto for 2006...every woman should be able to do at least one pull up, incase she should ever be dangling over a precipice one day in need to pull herself to safety. Also, perhaps you may be one handed dangling in previous mentioned predicament, so a one handed pull up should be essential too, then of course I have a child, and should I be hanging on to her with my other hand I should need to be able to lift my own weight plus hers...so you see why the emphasis on upper body strength...it all makes perfect sense... it is also going to come in handy with opening jars and mundane stuff like that.

Anyway, I know most men are vaguely repulsed by women with muscle bulk, they can only handle slight definition...where do you all stand on this?

Muscle definition  is sexy.  Just look at dancers or ballerinas.  As I've said in another thread, Scuzzy Girl can scramble to the top of the Rolling Stones Cobra Head which is close to 120 feet tall (@40m)  And she looks SEXY going up.   It's the over-bulk that loses appeal.

Go for the strength, L,  you will never know when you may need it........   Like holding me closer!!!!  We're still gonna love you....  for yourself,  your work,  your pussy,  AND your upper body strength!!!!!!!

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"Apple of my Eye", "bated breath", "brave new world", "caught red-handed" - all coined by Shakespeare.

overslacked

Member

Re: Joining the Circus

I know most men are vaguely repulsed by women with muscle bulk, they can only handle slight definition...where do you all stand on this?

I think I'd love for you to be able to take a photo while doing a one-armed pull-up!

More on topic though ... before I started visiting ISM I really only had one physical type, halfway between butch and waif. I used to be a fencer, and I loved training and competing with the women. Everything about it was sexy.

Although none of us were bulky, we were strong. And none of the women looked at all unfeminine. Just as SCSIgirl said.

Catt beat me to it, but I also love that particular line in your post.

Basically, everything that everyone else has already said. I always get here late.

I think the circus sounds like so much fun, and so much work - congratulations!

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jdudley76

Member

Re: Joining the Circus

As I understand it, there is a difference between muscle definition and muscle strength. The more defined a muscle is, the longer it can work without getting fatigued. This is achieved by excersizing with lighter weights using more repetitions. Muscle strength defines how much weight a muscle can lift in a single rep, and is directly related to the bulk of the muscle. This is acheved by lifting heavier weights with lower repetitions.

For my own personal taste, I don't think defined (or toned) muscles are unattractive at any stage. Muscle bulk can however be over done in my opinion on both men and women. I find looking at the most extreme bodybuilders unpleasent, but I wouldn't tell them to stop doing what they are doing if it's healthy, and it makes them happy.

I get the impression Li, that you are somewhat worried about becoming less attractive if you build some muscle. I can't answer for everyone, but I really don't think you have to worry too much about that. Unless you are going to the extreme of becoming a professional bodybuilder, I think there is a lot you can accomplish in regards to phyiscal fitness that wouldn't deminish you attractiveness or femininity in any way. I think there is an old stereotype that says women are supposed to be delicate and weak, but I think if you ask most people today, they would actually tell you that they find reasonably strong women attractive.

I wish you the best of luck in your efforts, and hope you will grace us with a folio when you have achieved your goals. (I would mind some more in the mean time as well either ;o) )

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liandra_dahl

Member

Re: Joining the Circus

Yeah body builders aren't sexy, men or women, I don't think it's actually even healthy because they get bone splinters and joint injuries all the time because of the immense stress.

SCSIgirl

Member

Re: Joining the Circus

Yeah body builders aren't sexy, men or women, I don't think it's actually even healthy because they get bone splinters and joint injuries all the time because of the immense stress.

Yeah,  I agree....  I really hate those "joint" injuries.  ;-}

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"Apple of my Eye", "bated breath", "brave new world", "caught red-handed" - all coined by Shakespeare.

Belgareth

Member

Re: Joining the Circus

Yeah body builders aren't sexy, men or women, I don't think it's actually even healthy because they get bone splinters and joint injuries all the time because of the immense stress.

I guess I'll never have the problem of joint injuries. You've got to be joined up to get them and I can't even managed joined up thinking!

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roxxie

Member

Re: Joining the Circus

Congrats!! I'm so envious! I think muscular women are sexy because they just look so healthy.

voyeur2

Member

Re: Joining the Circus

Just take a look at serious gymnasts.  Mostly they strike that balance between grace of form and muscularity.  Retain a bit of body fat - it is a healthy reserve mass for illness.  Most muscle builders strive for definition by reducing body fat that hides the view of the muscles.

Besides. your real beauty is in your face, as it reflects your intelligence, your mind.  I doubt you would be much interested in people who judge merely on surface values.

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Have I ever lied to you before?

SCSIgirl

Member

Re: Joining the Circus

Just take a look at serious gymnasts.  Mostly they strike that balance between grace of form and muscularity.  Retain a bit of body fat - it is a healthy reserve mass for illness.  Most muscle builders strive for definition by reducing body fat that hides the view of the muscles.

Besides. your real beauty is in your face, as it reflects your intelligence, your mind.  I doubt you would be much interested in people who judge merely on surface values.

Gee,  I dunno, V,  a really cute ass can seriously overpower intelligence....   And a pair of fine legs can drop my IQ real fast....  ;-}

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"Apple of my Eye", "bated breath", "brave new world", "caught red-handed" - all coined by Shakespeare.

Belgareth

Member

Re: Joining the Circus

Just take a look at serious gymnasts.  Mostly they strike that balance between grace of form and muscularity.  Retain a bit of body fat - it is a healthy reserve mass for illness.  Most muscle builders strive for definition by reducing body fat that hides the view of the muscles.

Besides. your real beauty is in your face, as it reflects your intelligence, your mind.  I doubt you would be much interested in people who judge merely on surface values.

I may be biased but I have major concerns over any person, or group of people, who push one aspect or ability to the extreme, at the risk of destroying the rest of the body and mind in the process.

In passing, I have no intention of having a direct dig at you V2 but your last statement is a dichotomy - a person's face IS a surface value, apart from their eyes which do reflect the inner person. As I have stated before, I judge the entire package and the one part of that package which cannot be seen in an image, or none communitative contact, is the mind (id, ego, or whatever else you want to call it).

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SCSIgirl

Member

Re: Joining the Circus

[QUOTE=Belgareth]I may be biased but I have major concerns over any person, or group of people, who push one aspect or ability to the extreme, at the risk of destroying the rest of the body and mind in the process.

>>>>  snipped for brevity <<<
QUOTE]

This brings up and interesting theory my gf believes in.  Gymnasts, Skaters, and ballerinas in particular.

My gf believes that when childern are young and they participate intensely (or are heavily pushed by their parents) into a "world championship class" of something,  lets say figure skating,  the child developes leg muscles far more intense than they would normally.  This in turn,  draws most of their growing energy.  As a result,  the child tends to be underdeveloped in other areas,  like height, tits, and other things that should have grown in proportion.  The more extreme the devotion to the sport,  the more underdeveloped the child is  (and to some degree,  socially underveloped).

I have always thought that most world-class child athletes were small because of basic physics.  It's easier to vault over a pummel if you are 75lbs,  than if you are 125lbs.  Triple axeling a 155cm frame is easier than spinning a 175cm frame.  The normally small excede because their muscle to weight ratio is higher.

I'm unaware of any real scientific evidence either way.

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"Apple of my Eye", "bated breath", "brave new world", "caught red-handed" - all coined by Shakespeare.

blissed

Member

Re: Joining the Circus

I judge the entire package and the one part of that package which cannot be seen in an image, or none communitative contact, is the mind (id, ego, or whatever else you want to call it).

Thats why videos and boards are so good. You get that extra dimension. I said I didn't like any muscle definition but I like lisbeth's body. She's fit too, in both senses of the word. Actually some personality can come through in a self shoot, but it's a very rare still that can do that accurately.
Yeah, I'm really taken with Lisbeth as a person. I think she's great.

pia

Member

Re: Joining the Circus

Hey Superwoman
Thats so great that you're joining (or training with) the circus .. I have often dreamt of running away to join the circus but never been brave (or maybe never really wanted to) enough to do it. I must say Liandra that I really quite enjoy reading the little snippets you wruite about yourself on here. I admire the fact that you have a child and go to uni and still manage to do all this other cool fun and brave stuff .. I mean I supose that having a child and going to uni is cool and fun as well .. but whenever I consider the possibilty of me having babies (which I would like to do sometime) it scares the crap out of me because I keep imagining that my whole life would have to totally change direction and that i'd be forced to sacrifice all my dreams .. when I see woman like you I realise that it's not true and that makes me feel good .. so I just want to say thank you for being you ..

Anyway ... now I finally understand why it is important that every woman is able to do at least one pull up and I'm feeling much more motivated to work on my upper body strength .. ohhh Man .. it's gonna take me ages and ages to be able to do one pull up .. let alone one handed and carrying a child in the other arm
xox

Oh and I think muscles however developed or defined, often look good on people who actually have them as a result of work or play or whatever recreational pursuits they happen to enjoy, on the contrary I am not so fond of any of those gym junky muscle builder steroid kinda muscles.

mikhaill

Member

Re: Joining the Circus

I've seen a few Womens' Circus shows in my time while I lived in Melbourne -- congrats on getting in!

I think a few people above have said more or less what I think:
- I like muscle definition on a woman ... not so much muscle bulk, but some "cutness" can look hot.
- If you're doing this for you, do it for you, and all that jazz.

To be a little bit glib about it, it can be compared to something like body hair -- I myself prefer less body hair on a woman rather than more, but fundamentally I'd rather she be comfortable and happy with whatever body hair she chooses to have than be uncomfortable about having less because someone else expects it of her.

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blissed

Member

Re: Joining the Circus

I admire the fact that you have a child and go to uni and still manage to do all this other cool fun and brave stuff .......whenever I consider the possibilty of me having babies (which I would like to do sometime) it scares the crap out of me because I keep imagining that my whole life would have to totally change direction and that i'd be forced to sacrifice all my dreams .. when I see woman like you I realise that it's not true and that makes me feel good

I don't want to make you too much of a swellhead Liandra but I agree. I think thats true of bit of both sex's. Be nice if you could say how you achieve it, and whether it's something most people could do.

liandra_dahl

Member

Re: Joining the Circus

Thanks everyone for the congratulations, I'll try and get some funny photos for you to see and pop them up on the forum.

Scuzzy - I think your girl is probably onto something with the child athlete stuff. Luckily I'm too old for that to concern me and I stunted my growth long ago with good old tabbacy...oh and some joint injuries...

Pia - I'm glad I've helped you realise that having a child shouldn't mean you sacrifice all your dreams. There are massive differences in your life, mainly your social life, but for the most part having children can help to remind you what your dreams were and focus you on actually pursuing them. Once you become a parent people can put a lot of pressure on you to live your life a certain way, in a more traditional way I suppose, but I never did before hand and I have no intention to do so after. I have a lot going on in my life, and to some degree having my daughter makes that harder, but a lot of the time I am offered more support because I am a parent, and people not only make allowances for that, but quite frequently go above and beyond to help me out.

Blissed - I am absolutely certain anyone can do it, but it really helps if you're stubborn as hell.

romeodeaux

Member

Re: Joining the Circus

Anyway, I know most men are vaguely repulsed by women with muscle bulk, they can only handle slight definition...where do you all stand on this?

Hi there liandra!.

i know this is a late contribution to this thread & all the main points have been made in previous posts. i think you've probably made up your mind about all this.  However being a life long admirer of muscular athletic women, - You might find my take on it interesting.

Because of above, I have almost  felt it was my duty to be attracted to women bodybuilders.
But I finally had to throw in the towel recently and admit that 99% of female bodybuilders don't do it for me. Why ?- I must stress that what I will say is my opinion . I think that Women's Bodybuilding is as valid form of Body Modification and Art, as  tatoos, piercing etc., and that the women involved have the right to do whatever they want with their bodies & take it to what ever extremes they choose. 

But Having said that I don't have to like what they do. I find hard core women's bodybuilding disappointing - I don't like the : masculinisastion of the women, the overdeveloped upper body v- shape lt's almost like they were modelling themselves on some sort ideal male physique. The steroid induced deeper voices. the orange fake tans. or  the stressed - out, positive cheerleader, up, uP, UP!!! Intense high energy  positive thinking plastic smile-ing performances, or the muscular but unhealthy weak physical state they have to reach, to be competition ready. - I find it a total turn off  .
The only side effect of steroid taking I like is the enlargerning of the clitoris, that can sometimes happen. which i find an erotic turn- on. : But the possible negative impact on health  is too high a price to pay for this bonus . If i had a girlfriend, i would rather she was healthy had a naturally large clitoris, or average, or less than average sized one, rather than risk her health by having a steroid enhanced one . And in the same vein, i would rather hypothetical girlfriend had naturally low - maintenance athletic body, rather than steroid induced, gym addicted one.

The fact that the media and society are diffident about physically strong women in sexual terms, really used to piss me off, -  because it meant i didn't get to see any women like this through normal channels. in the media, or my living environment in everyday life...... Till i got Net access that is .

Believe it or not a in the UK a lot of women / girls, with exceptionaly athletic physiques seem to want to hide them away from the light of day. It's like they've swallowed the hype about all men being deeply traumatised by the sight of a strong woman .- 'Oh, noOO!! the horror! The Horror!'-
i remember Deborah Bull, a British ballerina, saying on a TV programme that the downside of being a dancer is that she could never wear short skirts in the summer because her legs were i quote, ' too muscular ' for it  . I remember thinking,- How could this intelligent, perceptive, cosmopolitan, world travelled woman, on the world's stage, in a body obsessed art-form & profession, - who must be getting feedback about her physical appearance all the time, have reached the age of 35 - And not know that their are vast oceans of men out there, who dream of  having a girlfriend, or just being around a woman with a face a body and legs like hers? men who could  on a fine summer's day, could spend many happy hours in profound contemplation & quiet appreciation of her, in a short summer skirt,  with aforementioned ' too muscular legs ' on display. Was the media & society responsible for this ?. Was it ignorance ?. A wilful blind spot on her part ?. - A fear of what other women might say or think ?. or a pose adopted just to upset men like me for unknown reasons ?. ( joke!!)

You might find the following yawn - inducing, like an over enthusiastic friends boring holiday snaps . But anyway here are a few links you might find interesting !
Vulcana :
http:///www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/hometruths/20040830_vulcana_atlas.shtm
  Romantic Victorian heroine of mine, & strong- woman, who was one of the sources of inspiration for..the Oz based, Vulcana Women's Circus :
[url="http:// www.vulcana.org.au"]http:// www.vulcana.org.au[/url]

Monika Wieckowski :http://www.mowifit.com
Check out  red pants folio in her fotogallery this is a period when i personal  think she was peaking, at her most glorious , original & striking period  in terms of style. But i also like her present softer look.
   
Sensuous arty fotos of lithe flexy strong girls,  Aurelia Cats :   
http://www.aureliacats.com/index.html
Jodi Leigh Miller :
http://www.jodileigh.com/index.htm
Last but not least. Jody May : http://www.jody-may.com in the 1% category of female bodybuilders I like. Xtreme muscularity, and for me personally, Extreme gorgeousness. - whilst remaining totally Feminine, and All - Woman.

I Think i should also mention the work of ART-FLEX  creator & photographer john de Lombardo,
http://www.artflex.com

I do wonder and fantasise about what women above would look like if they did ISM type shots!- rather than being fotoed by someone else. But that is obviously never going to happen and will have to remain a fantasy.
.

romeodeaux

Member

Re: Joining the Circus

With regard to my previous post in this thread :

The link to the BBC UK's ,' Vulcana ' page, doesn't seem to be working. So here are 2 pages on a Russian site that are about Vulcana and other women from that historical period :
http://www.fscclub.com/history/borchihi2-e.shtml

http://www.fscclub.com/strength/steel-e.shtml

And a great Links page covering all ares of women's fitness / bodybuilding, and related topics :

www.delimit.net/users/deekay/index849.html?page=meeting

- RomeoBeaux