#51 July 19th, 2005 06:30 AM

Torstar

Member

Re: Art & Men!

I'd had a few but I wasn't half as tanked as I was for the "I am drunk, the world is fucked" post I wrote. Sorry to dissapoint.

oh

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And the third beast came forth from the ground

liandra_dahl

Member

Re: Art & Men!

oh

Oh?

Torstar

Member

Re: Art & Men!

I still think a lot of guys want to submit naked folios. It would certainly add to the intimacy of this project

cheers

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And the third beast came forth from the ground

liandra_dahl

Member

Re: Art & Men!

I still think a lot of guys want to submit naked folios. It would certainly add to the intimacy of this project

cheers

I would love to see male submissions, I'd also like to see masculine submissions (not necessarily males). I have spent many an hour pondering this with Mademoiselle and my on/ off boyf. We have imagined starting our own website that would include men, or maybe men only. Unfortunately we don't have any funds for such a venture. Though if one of you sponsors started a site I could easily/ readily/ happily round up some lovely lads to get the ball rolling.

What bothers me most is that I think ISM should at least try it. I know they say they've had men submit but they haven't put it online because they didn't make the grade. Couldn't they really test the water. Put one up and have a vote, or something. Well it's HEAD's baby, and I wouldn't want to tell a parent how to raise their child, but seeing as he's semi-abandoned ISM for new ventures, couldn't he let ISM have a new adventures of its own?

Anyway, as Shannon is calling the shots these days, what does she think about it all?

thecatman

Member

Re: Art & Men!

As an egalitarian, I strongly feel that men should be allowed to contribute.  I can't see how it would take anything away from the women to have men contributing too.  And men have plenty of insecurities to work through, and issues with the media, societal standards, etc.  I'd personally be less inclined to spend my time browsing through the male contributions (just because I'm more drawn to the beauty of women), but I'm sure many others would.  Also, what better way to subvert the tradition of it just being men looking at naked women, than to have women (and men) looking at naked men too?

The only possible problem I can see is that there would probably be a much large quantity of male photos to sort through, and I think the new published contributions shouldn't be more than 50% male.  But there should be ways to work around that.  For example, it could be required that prospective male contributers write a 500 word essay about what the shoot means to them, which could then be evaluated before them getting the go ahead to submit the photos. And then once the shoot gets posted online, the essay could be posted with their profile.

enigmatic3

Member

Re: Art & Men!

as Shannon is calling the shots these days, what does she think about it all?

She probably thinks it's a bad idea: in purely financial terms - and how else can you view a business? - naked women are far more profitable than naked men, and like it or not this site is all about naked women (oh, and Stash Safes).  Just look at the banner at the top of this screen: can you imagine a naked guy - or even a guy in his pants - lounging up there with a coquettish gaze?  Me neither.  It may be an unjust state of affairs but then so many things are in this crazy old world. 

Is your own website really such an unattainable goal?  It doesn't cost *that* much to set one up these days...

shannon

Administrator

Re: Art & Men!

I would love to see male submissions, I'd also like to see masculine submissions (not necessarily males). I have spent many an hour pondering this with Mademoiselle and my on/ off boyf. We have imagined starting our own website that would include men, or maybe men only. Unfortunately we don't have any funds for such a venture. Though if one of you sponsors started a site I could easily/ readily/ happily round up some lovely lads to get the ball rolling.

What bothers me most is that I think ISM should at least try it. I know they say they've had men submit but they haven't put it online because they didn't make the grade. Couldn't they really test the water. Put one up and have a vote, or something. Well it's HEAD's baby, and I wouldn't want to tell a parent how to raise their child, but seeing as he's semi-abandoned ISM for new ventures, couldn't he let ISM have a new adventures of its own?

Anyway, as Shannon is calling the shots these days, what does she think about it all?

I agree with head on this - and not just because it would double my workload.  As pro-naked boy as I am, the shoots that have been submitted just haven't been that pretty.  Also, the response to duets featuring guys tend to be received with mixed reactions, which suggests that even if you put a naked girl next to him, naked boy isn't ever going to be terribly popular here.  I also quite love the female in control of her own erotic image doctrine of ISM, and I wouldn't want to be wandering from that too much.

I do however, heartily encourage all experimentation in this arena, so if you do start up a site and need any authoritative critiques on sets done by jack white look alikes, send them my way.

Torstar

Member

Re: Art & Men!

I agree with head on this - and not just because it would double my workload.  As pro-naked boy as I am, the shoots that have been submitted just haven't been that pretty.  Also, the response to duets featuring guys tend to be received with mixed reactions, which suggests that even if you put a naked girl next to him, naked boy isn't ever going to be terribly popular here.  I also quite love the female in control of her own erotic image doctrine of ISM, and I wouldn't want to be wandering from that too much.

I do however, heartily encourage all experimentation in this arena, so if you do start up a site and need any authoritative critiques on sets done by jack white look alikes, send them my way.

A linked website, perhaps : ISMsponsors.com or something along those lines.  The naked boys pay to post their submissions and the women get paid to review and or critique them.  The guidelines could be suggested but the women would ultimately control content by their own critiquing.  Is that a proposal worth looking $ into ?

cheers all

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And the third beast came forth from the ground

Markk02474

Member

Re: Art & Men!

Homosexual artists have tended to create the best renderings of men. Straight artists have too, but not so much. Given the sponsor population here, I expect self-portraits to be less inspired than if they were shooting a woman. I've done male and female nude figures and the women came out better unless the model posed really well on his own.

Oh, I get my hair cut by a gay man, and I'm not sure I would trust a straight male interior decorator to do a good job. Anybody with me?

Keep the site women. There are enough nude web sites to be so specific.

Yes, I shave.

For the first time ever I find myself cheering a comment by EgonArbus. I think the idea that men can not be art is a complete fallacy, and is based on hegemonic male heterosexuality. This view is pushed so strongly and ubiquitously that no other perspectives are getting a look in. I have said before I would love to see men on this site, even if the good folios were few and far between.

liandra_dahl

Member

Re: Art & Men!

A linked website, perhaps : ISMsponsors.com or something along those lines.  The naked boys pay to post their submissions and the women get paid to review and or critique them.  The guidelines could be suggested but the women would ultimately control content by their own critiquing.  Is that a proposal worth looking $ into ?

cheers all

I think that would be a wonderful aside to this site, though the reversal of economic roles seems more than a lttle unfair.

wantingscott

Member

Re: Art & Men!

i'd be happy to do my part (s)

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centrevom

Member

Re: Art & Men!

[QUOTE=Torstar]A linked website, perhaps : ISMsponsors.com or something along those lines.  The naked boys pay to post their submissions and the women get paid to review and or critique them.  The guidelines could be suggested but the women would ultimately control content by their own critiquing.  Is that a proposal worth looking $ into ?

Turn that around.  Women pay to post their submissions and men get paid to critique them. Wouldn't someone say there's a little exploitation going on there?

voyeur2

Member

Re: Art & Men!

[QUOTE=Torstar]A linked website, perhaps : ISMsponsors.com or something along those lines.  The naked boys pay to post their submissions and the women get paid to review and or critique them.  The guidelines could be suggested but the women would ultimately control content by their own critiquing.  Is that a proposal worth looking $ into ?

Turn that around.  Women pay to post their submissions and men get paid to critique them. Wouldn't someone say there's a little exploitation going on there?

On ISM its: the women get paid a pittance (and a shot at a prize) for posting themselves, Anyone can pay to critique and see what the shooter shot.
Who ends up with any residual value and for how long might be more germain to how much is paid for the images.

In the art world there is a lot of dross for the few bits of brilliance.

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wantingscott

Member

Re: Art & Men!

the american comedian Wanda Sykes had an act including this subject: "see men pay for women to take their clothes off. but ladies, any of you, you walk up to any guy you want to and ask him to take his clothes off for you? 'Right now!!??!! Sure!!!!!' See, that's the difference... men can't WAIT to get naked. They're not hung-up on what their bodies look like like us ladies. Man could be 300 pounds and hair on his shoulders, but he'll stand in front of a mirror, suck in his stomach and think he's Adonis."

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that's the way it goes. but don't forget, it goes the other way too.

Torstar

Member

Re: Art & Men!

the american comedian Wanda Sykes had an act including this subject: "see men pay for women to take their clothes off. but ladies, any of you, you walk up to any guy you want to and ask him to take his clothes off for you? 'Right now!!??!! Sure!!!!!' See, that's the difference... men can't WAIT to get naked. They're not hung-up on what their bodies look like like us ladies. Man could be 300 pounds and hair on his shoulders, but he'll stand in front of a mirror, suck in his stomach and think he's Adonis."

That's why I think the economic role reversal is fair.  I would pay for the privilege for any one of this group of fine vivacous spirited women to paruse my bod.

cheers

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And the third beast came forth from the ground

liandra_dahl

Member

Re: Art & Men!

If you guys really do want to get your kit off and do a shoot, I'd be happy to look, free of charge. Send me a private message and I'll send you the e-mail address to send it to and a release form.

voyeur2

Member

Re: Art & Men!

you walk up to any guy you want to and ask him to take his clothes off for you? 'Right now!!??!! Sure!!!!!' See, that's the difference... men can't WAIT to get naked. "

Actually, I think if the average guy was approached and asked to get naked, to be filmed, the majority would refuse. 

I remember a hilarious film shoot way back before even video.  We are talking super 8 or 16mm here. 

Anyway this guy with the camera and a honkin' big light bar on his shoulder would proposition women to get nekkid for the camera right then and there.  In stairwells, up alleys.  The thing was amazing.  There they wre flashing T & A, just average women.  I always wondered what his batting average on the film pitch was, how often he had to run for it.

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thylacine

Member

Re: Art & Men!

Actually, I think if the average guy was approached and asked to get naked, to be filmed, the majority would refuse. 

I remember a hilarious film shoot way back before even video.  We are talking super 8 or 16mm here. 

Anyway this guy with the camera and a honkin' big light bar on his shoulder would proposition women to get nekkid for the camera right then and there.  In stairwells, up alleys.  The thing was amazing.  There they wre flashing T & A, just average women.  I always wondered what his batting average on the film pitch was, how often he had to run for it.

I think he was called Ugly George and did a series of programmes.

Markk02474

Member

Re: Art & Men!

You can efficiently distribute your wares all around the world. Plus sleazy web sites might even use them as commercial content. Just don't Copyright or Copyleft the jpg's. Dates me, huh? It wouldn't cost you and you might even get feedback.

Yes, Ugly George would go up to women. Some cheek for its day.

liandra_dahl

Member

Re: Art & Men!

Actually, I think if the average guy was approached and asked to get naked, to be filmed, the majority would refuse.

I feel inclined to find out exactly who is right, you or wanting scott.

wantingscott

Member

Re: Art & Men!

Liandra,
do your own experiment. do you own a video camera? do a daylight thing. all you need: make yourself look like an indie film maker/ documentarian. have a buddy act as a sound person with a microphone and carry what looks like equipment in a messenger bag. i'd say submit the vid to ISM and lets see what happens.

there will be trou dropping on an epic scale. say you are making a documentary on the "Girls Gone Wild" phenom... or something.

Scott

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that's the way it goes. but don't forget, it goes the other way too.

Markk02474

Member

Re: Art & Men!

Ask if they respond to Craigslist personals. Boston women complain they are always getting dick picks with the replies to thier personal ads. Complie the results and mail to Craig.

"Three out of five male exhibitionists read Craig's List! Advertise your company today!"

wantingscott

Member

Re: Art & Men!

ISM Forum,
doing an end-run around the fascist belief that a comming man is ALWAYS pig and ugly, I am filling a mini-DV tape with a happy ending to my tradjedy.

take 1 was slated and finished last night, by the light of a red neon sign and a fire. tonight's theme might be cool blue light and water...

i can't watch them, so i'll just submit them, maybe 6 or 7 on one tape, as per Beautiful Agony criteria...   i never believed anyone who said "it's not for the money" until i said it to myself. blame it on last night's full moon, maybe, or blame it on self-fulfilling therapy, but i need this to make me whole.

anyone follow this?  i missed my meds today, sorry if this doesn't make alot of sense... but i felt a hell of alot better last night, like finding a piece of my stolen property.

Scott

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that's the way it goes. but don't forget, it goes the other way too.

Belgareth

Member

Re: Art & Men!

ISM Forum,
doing an end-run around the fascist belief that a comming man is ALWAYS pig and ugly, I am filling a mini-DV tape with a happy ending to my tradjedy.

take 1 was slated and finished last night, by the light of a red neon sign and a fire. tonight's theme might be cool blue light and water...

i can't watch them, so i'll just submit them, maybe 6 or 7 on one tape, as per Beautiful Agony criteria...   i never believed anyone who said "it's not for the money" until i said it to myself. blame it on last night's full moon, maybe, or blame it on self-fulfilling therapy, but i need this to make me whole.

anyone follow this?  i missed my meds today, sorry if this doesn't make alot of sense... but i felt a hell of alot better last night, like finding a piece of my stolen property.

Scott

It make a great deal of sense to me and I have no problem following any of it Scott, missed medication or no.

You must be the first ISM male member to advertise their submission to BA. Good on yer!

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wantingscott

Member

Re: Art & Men!

and i kept it hardkkore ISM, with an artists folio on my laptop's screensaver, off to the side.

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_________________________________________________
that's the way it goes. but don't forget, it goes the other way too.