#1 April 17th, 2004 02:19 PM

Jeffrodoe

Member

the folios

I'm not trying to insult anyone's sense of taste, but I'm wondering if I'm the only one who has noticed a reduction in the quality of folios we've been seeing since the new membership levels went into effect.

Up until recently nearly every folio was interesting and stimulating at the same time. But now they are like.....ho hum. With all the folios that have been submitted, you'd think there would be tons of awesome sets to choose from. Please tell me that the decent shoots are not all relegated to the *extra membership* areas now.

To be honest, I'd rather have seen the site remain all one membership level, and just paid a few more bucks for the new content. Now that decisions have to be made as to what goes here or there, I'm afraid it'll effect the overall quality of the site. Let's drop the extra levels, charge a little more, and have 2 new folios per day. That makes more sense to me, and I seriously doubt I'm alone in that opinion.

Thanks for your time.

thylacine

Member

Re: the folios

I'm not trying to insult anyone's sense of taste, but I'm wondering if I'm the only one who has noticed a reduction in the quality of folios we've been seeing since the new membership levels went into effect.

Up until recently nearly every folio was interesting and stimulating at the same time. But now they are like.....ho hum. With all the folios that have been submitted, you'd think there would be tons of awesome sets to choose from. Please tell me that the decent shoots are not all relegated to the *extra membership* areas now.

To be honest, I'd rather have seen the site remain all one membership level, and just paid a few more bucks for the new content. Now that decisions have to be made as to what goes here or there, I'm afraid it'll effect the overall quality of the site. Let's drop the extra levels, charge a little more, and have 2 new folios per day. That makes more sense to me, and I seriously doubt I'm alone in that opinion.

Thanks for your time.

I'd heartily agree with Jeffrodoe's comments about membership levels and pricing. I think there were a number of mistakes made when the site was revised and having different membership levels was one of them. At present the ISM Extra membership is $45 for 90 days recurring, over 50% more than the Standard membership of $29 for the same period. That was way too big a jump for me to upgrade and strikes me as being poor value for a small number of extra folios each week, which by your own admission are mostly second rate. I don't know what percentage of Standard members have converted to Extra membership? However many have I suspect that when you crunch the numbers there is a strong business case for having just one membership level with a more logical pricing point of say $35 for 90 days recurring.

I'd also agree to some extent with Jeffrodoe's comments about the recent drop in quality. Whilst there have been some good sets, many more have been disappointing. To put it bluntly far too many plain girls, with limited artistic ability, producing very mediocre folios. Though today's folio by Lisette was excellent. More of the same standard please.

Head

Administrator

Re: the folios

The best folios will always be Daily Folios.  Please don't forget that the core credo of ISM is one new artist, every day.  So when we get requests for an artist to return, we can't put those up as daily folios.  The Overloads only exist because we receive so many folios and so far we haven't turned anyone away, so we use the best as daily folios, and what to do with the rest?  And the Duets - you will soon see those heat up considerably as we've invited some artists to do a shoot with their partner (male or female).

If we had put all the content in together and upped the price, that wouldn't be fair to existing Standard members and would be against the core ethic of the site.  So we decided to add a category, Extra,  for people who can afford to pay more and want as much ISM as they can get. 

Even adding Extra content every second day we are accumulating more, so Extra will likely increase in frequency (in fact it is already averaging 5 a week including bonus issues).  So the Extra pricing plan is good value, especially when you consider the Duets.  And you'll notice that most of the Reloads contain quite a few more images than average.  The Extra content is most certainly not "mostly second rate".  Extra is more about nudity and less about art, and even many Overloads are great shoots but they can't make Prirmary Folios because there is doubt the artist did it all herself.  A large perecentage of new members choose Extra and we haven't had any requests to downgrade.

We also added the Basic plans for people who wanted to see what's in the Daily Folios before they commit to a 90-day memebrship.  They can upgrade and get full credit for time unused.

If you perceive the quality of the folios has dropped, perhaps you're getting a little jaded - but I assure you we have some AMAZING folios coming up.

Jeffrodoe

Member

Re: the folios

The best folios will always be Daily Folios.  Please don't forget ...   

(snipped for brevity)

If you perceive the quality of the folios has dropped, perhaps you're getting a little jaded - but I assure you we have some AMAZING folios coming up.

I hear you and understand what you are saying. In certain cases I think the way you've gone about the higher levels makes sense. However, I'd bet that the majority of established members feel a bit slighted by the way the changes were made. I never received an email asking what *I* thought, nor do I know if anyone else was asked.

If nothing else, perhaps a 15 or 30 day temporary membership might have been offered to all existing members. Something like that might have helped me see the benefit in upgrading, rather than feeling overlooked.

Since you rely upon member's subscription and likely wish to retain as many as possible when their *re-up* time comes, I'd suggest querying the membership in depth about possible changes in the future.   

I shant beat a dead horse my friend. I enjoy your site and plan to renew when my time comes. I just wanted to offer my opinion. Peace.

thylacine

Member

Re: the folios

The best folios will always be Daily Folios.  Please don't forget that the core credo of ISM is one new artist, every day.  So when we get requests for an artist to return, we can't put those up as daily folios.  The Overloads only exist because we receive so many folios and so far we haven't turned anyone away, so we use the best as daily folios, and what to do with the rest?  And the Duets - you will soon see those heat up considerably as we've invited some artists to do a shoot with their partner (male or female).

If we had put all the content in together and upped the price, that wouldn't be fair to existing Standard members and would be against the core ethic of the site.  So we decided to add a category, Extra,  for people who can afford to pay more and want as much ISM as they can get. 

Even adding Extra content every second day we are accumulating more, so Extra will likely increase in frequency (in fact it is already averaging 5 a week including bonus issues).  So the Extra pricing plan is good value, especially when you consider the Duets.  And you'll notice that most of the Reloads contain quite a few more images than average.  The Extra content is most certainly not "mostly second rate".  Extra is more about nudity and less about art, and even many Overloads are great shoots but they can't make Prirmary Folios because there is doubt the artist did it all herself.  A large perecentage of new members choose Extra and we haven't had any requests to downgrade.

We also added the Basic plans for people who wanted to see what's in the Daily Folios before they commit to a 90-day memebrship.  They can upgrade and get full credit for time unused.

If you perceive the quality of the folios has dropped, perhaps you're getting a little jaded - but I assure you we have some AMAZING folios coming up.

If I used the phrase "mostly second rate", that is because you yourself used words to that effect. I think you referred to folios being sub-standard work or something similar. But without becoming an Extra member I wouldn't know what quality they were would I? Because, in probably the dumbest move you made when you changed the site, you got rid of nearly all the free content.

There used to be a nice logical progression from a portrait of a pretty girl on the front page, to a page of details about her, plus a few free samples of the set. Then to the members only page with the full folio, which the previous page's free samples had given you a strong incentive to want to pay for. I don't think you appreciated what a powerful marketing tool those free sample pictures were.

If we take myself as an example, I originally saw a small picture and a couple of lines mentioning this site in 'MacFormat' magazine (The only place incidentally where I have ever seen this site mentioned) and decided to have a quick look at your site. As it happens Blush was the artist of the day, who I thought was very cute. After looking at the free pictures of her folio on the artist's profile page, I decided I wanted to see more of her, so I became a member. If there had been no free pictures of Blush, then almost certainly this site would be one of many I have a quick glance at and NEVER visit again!

So if you do nothing else I would strongly suggest you again have free samples of the folios of all the artists mentioned on your front page, both primary artists and extras. I'd also strongly suggest that you make the thumbnails of EVERY folio on this site visible to everyone, but not clickable for those who haven't paid the appropriate amount. Those two actions would both improve the look of the site and, equally importantly, greatly increase the percentage of people who become members after visiting this site.

My experiences running an on-line forum for a number of years and elsewhere suggest that just one level of membership generally works best for all concerned. To have extra features available only to those who pay more tends to cause dissatisfaction and breed resentment. One membership site I know of lost tens of thousands of members when it brought in different membership levels and ended up a year later having to be sold. I'm personally on just a small fixed income, because I have been unable to work for some time due to injury, so I'm naturally reluctant to suggest that as a standard member I should pay more. Yet I do, because I know that model works best. A modest increase to somewhere around the $35 pricing point for ALL members, would both keep the membership happy, without hurting too much those on modest incomes and, in the longer term, increase your bottom line.

I don't think I'm getting jaded, but I have been a bit disappointed with a number of recent folios. Though that's probably due to the natural ebb and flow of quality (a very subjective notion) anything of this nature is likely to have. Anyhow I look forward to those "AMAZING" folios you have coming up!

Head

Administrator

Re: the folios

No wonder you're disappointed.  This is the first I've heard of the free samples being no longer available - must be another Mac thing we'd better look into.  I'd like to hear from other MAC users as to whether they still get the 12 daily freebies.

You might be right about the standard $35 fee, but then maybe it should be $25 or maybe $45.  Maybe we need a 7 tiered sustem with a referral program and free Tazos.  I wonder whether you're speaking from the perspective of the user, or proposing a business model for us? Do you think our bottom line should be the most important factor, or do you presume that it is?  If it was, would that be this year's bottom line, or a 5-year plan?

We have pitched the pricing on a user-pay basis.  We know that when we dropped the 30-day plans soon after opening the site, signups dropped although revenue increased, which says there are a lot of people out there who can only afford $10/month.  But with the archives increasing, if you join for $10 and vacuum all the content off the site, which is what we expect a lot of people would do, you'd use more of our bandwidth than you've paid for.  So we re-added the 30day plans for people on a budget, but they need to visit daily to stay up to date.  It's also a good way to sample the site to see what the Sponsor level images are like, before upgrading.

I think I described the Overload category of Extra 'not quite right'.  In some cases that does mean second rate, because we're accepting pretty much all the shoots offered to us, and using the best as Primary folios.  But some are also NQR just because the aritst isn't taking the pix, yet some would find those folios very worthwhile.  But Reloads and Duets are definitely first rate folios, in most cases anyway (this week's duet is probably an exception).

I think you are right about the ebb and flow of quality. Sometimes I look down the list of what's in stock and realise I've been putting up all the best folios, so I go conservative for a while.  Then we'll get some really nce folios submitted so I relax a bit.   But we're getting more and more submissions all the time so logically the quality of the Primary folios should be improving. 

You should see the stuff in the folder named "not even for overload".

Head

Administrator

Re: the folios

I'd also strongly suggest that you make the thumbnails of EVERY folio on this site visible to everyone, but not clickable for those who haven't paid the appropriate amount.

This should be the case, where thumbs for folios you don't have access to are in monochrome. Or do you mean the thumb of every image?

thylacine

Member

Re: the folios

This should be the case, where thumbs for folios you don't have access to are in monochrome. Or do you mean the thumb of every image?

As a Mac using Standard member I can't see any of your free content, other than the tour. Are there free samples of the Extra content available as well? If I try to access any Extra folios I just get a page inviting me to upgrade my membership. I certainly don't see any thumbnails, monochrome or otherwise. When I suggested making every thumbnail visible, but not clickable, I meant every thumbnail picture in every folio for every artist on the site.

Over the years I've seen numerous complaints about lazy web designers only checking that their site works with Internet Explorer for Windows. I suspect something like that has happened here, as not only can't I see your free samples, but the boxes on your advanced search page are so dark it's nearly impossible for me to know whether they've been ticked or not! Something to do with Macs and PCs using different colour temperatures for their displays I believe. It might be an idea to invest in a Mac, possibly a Linux box as well, and lots of different browsers, so these sort of problems are caught at an early stage. If nothing else there's much better editing software for your videos on the Mac!

Incidentally I think you took a couple of steps backward with the site re-design from an aesthetic point of view. It seems overly dark, cluttered and not as flowing or welcoming as the previous design.

I suggested $35 as a pricing point for one level membership because that is $12 per month times three minus $1. Only $2 per month more than the present rate. It seemed to me to be a reasonable compromise between what people can afford and what you need to cover running costs and make a modest profit. Obviously without running a spreadsheet and having access to your books I don't know at what pricing point a one level membership model would bring in an equal or greater amount of revenue than the present scheme. That figure could be more or less than the $35 I suggested. I do know that, from reading the thoughts of long standing members at Delphi Forums, some of whom have experience stretching back decades, that the one membership level model seems to work best for all concerned.

Incidentally what are Tazos? I'm familiar with tacos, even Tim-Tams, but I've never heard of those before.

Head

Administrator

Re: the folios

Incidentally what are Tazos? I'm familiar with tacos, even Tim-Tams, but I've never heard of those before.

They're a novelty kids get in chip packets.  At least that's what they used to be called.

We have tested the site on MAC, but only OSX I admit (we have limits).  Are you telling me you don't get 12 daily free samples?

thylacine

Member

Re: the folios

They're a novelty kids get in chip packets.  At least that's what they used to be called.

We have tested the site on MAC, but only OSX I admit (we have limits).  Are you telling me you don't get 12 daily free samples?

I'm using Mac OS 9.2.2 (the so called Classic Mac OS), as are still more than half of all Mac users, and since your site re-design I can no longer see any of your free content.

As well as the problems mentioned in my earlier post, there's often a problem with the artist's picture on their profile page. Often the picture won't display at all and on at least one occasion recently trying to access that page made my computer crash repeatedly.

Unless the Mac you used for testing is very recent you ought to be able to install a copy of Mac OS 9.2 alongside OS X and dual boot. That way you'd be able to pick up any obvious problems with no more than five minutes or so extra work for yourself. And as Macs are generally much longer lasting than PCs, it's likely for another year or two at least, the majority of your Mac users will probably still be using the Classic Mac OS rather than OS X.