#1 June 13th, 2021 10:39 PM

Contributor_Gabriella_C

Member

dear cis women,

Dear cis women,
What does it mean to be a woman to you?
Recently I have decided that, despite being AFAB (assigned female at birth), I am not comfortable with the label of "woman". This journey of exploring the vast, overwhelming, and enlightening field of gender identity has been exciting and thought-provoking. You all seem like the right crowd to ask about this, so cis women,

what does it mean to you to be a woman?

thank you in advance for your answers!

Piper_A

Member

Re: dear cis women,

Gabriella, it's so lovely to see you on the forums and commenting on shoots! And this is a great question, I hope it opens up some interesting conversation.
For me personally, (and I'm assuming this is similar for a lot of cis people) the experience of identifying with the gender I was assigned at birth is something I take for granted I think. The fact that I've never felt the need to take a step back and unpack my gender identity is a privilege. That's not to say I *haven't* taken a step back and done that - there have been times where I've really taken time to think about my gender and whether womanhood is something I always connect with. But ultimately, I have never felt like I *needed* to have that conversation with myself. The mind and body relationship that I have with my gender has been something that has always felt easy, and something I've never really had to challenge. There are other aspects of my identity and my life that I've had to spend a lot more time sitting with and unpacking and struggling with, but my gender is not one of those things, so I fully recognise that being cis has made my life easier than it might otherwise be.
In terms of my relationship to womanhood, it's a funny thing to speak about, because so many of the things I think are important in my understanding of womanhood are characteristics or experiences that are not inherently limited to women at all, but can be displayed by people of all genders. Things I've always felt are a part of my womanhood; the fact that I am soft, kind, emotional, open, a good listener, an empath, I feel things deeply, I am emotionally intelligent, I want to understand people on an emotional level, and I want people to perceive me as all of those things. I try to remain warm and calm and welcoming in my every interaction because I want the people in my life to feel warm and calm and welcome when they are around me.
Again, I fully recognise that these are not things that are inherently characteristics of women. But having said that, these are characteristics I was either raised to have (because it was 'ladylike' and it made those around me comfortable), or that I adopted as a defence mechanism!
I grew up almost exclusively with men - I lived with my dad for most of my childhood, as well as my brother, both of whom can be very stubborn, intense, aggressive and honestly, pretty burdened with toxic masculinity haha. So in being in a household with a lot of hardness and aggression, I learned that by being soft and small, I could, in some ways, opt out of the tense environment they were creating. They learned to treat me as delicate, and handle me with much more care than they would ever handle each other. And so, in this intensely masculine environment, I clung onto my sensitive nature as the thing that set me apart. I clung onto qualities that I saw displayed by the few women in my life, because these are the people I always felt warm and safe around; my teachers, friends' mothers, my own mother (when I did see her), and my Nanna.
Women are as unique as fingerprints - no woman's experience of womanhood is the same, and to some women, my ideas of being a woman might come across as superficial, or just not be relatable at all. But for me, I think that being so surrounded by men who made me feel unstable and anxious and often frightened, I actively sought out and adopted the characteristics that other women in my life offered me, and that has hugely shaped the woman I've become. Simply put, I think my experience of learning to be a woman had a lot to do with counteracting what I, at the time, believed it meant to be a man.
I feel very fortunate now that my life has shifted in such a way that I've now got far more women and nonbinary people in my life than men. That's absolutely not to say I don't like men; the men I do have in my life are so beautiful and kind, and make me feel very safe, but I'm thankful that I have now been able to find the community that I lacked in my formative years.
Thank you for this question, and I hope more women will be open to sharing, too.

Piper_A

Member

Re: dear cis women,

Lordy, just realised how long that was. Thanks in advance for reading my absolute novel of a comment!

Miss_Katia

Member

Re: dear cis women,

Great topic Gabriella, and a beautiful insight into your experience as a cis woman Piper. Thank you for sharing!

Looking forward to this thread expanding, it's an important topic to explore and discuss.

---

Miss Katia, ISM Editor

ashmedi

Member

Re: dear cis women,

I am drawing a complete blank on a term being used in this thread...
Can anybody tell me what 'cls' stands for when describing a woman?  Please and Thanks 

---

Ashmedi is an ancient demon of rage and lust.
Rage is not my thing, but I must admit to committing my favorite of the 7 deadly sins for most of the contributors

Miss_Katia

Member

Re: dear cis women,

I am drawing a complete blank on a term being used in this thread...
Can anybody tell me what 'cls' stands for when describing a woman?  Please and Thanks 

Cisgender is a word used to describe gender identity -  so if whatever gender you are now is the same as what was presumed for you at birth, you are cis.

---

Miss Katia, ISM Editor

ashmedi

Member

Re: dear cis women,

I am drawing a complete blank on a term being used in this thread...
Can anybody tell me what 'cls' stands for when describing a woman?  Please and Thanks 

Cisgender is a word used to describe gender identity -  so if whatever gender you are now is the same as what was presumed for you at birth, you are cis.

Thanks, Katia...  so essentially, no change to gender...

---

Ashmedi is an ancient demon of rage and lust.
Rage is not my thing, but I must admit to committing my favorite of the 7 deadly sins for most of the contributors

redbird

Member

Re: dear cis women,

I am drawing a complete blank on a term being used in this thread...
Can anybody tell me what 'cls' stands for when describing a woman?  Please and Thanks 

Cisgender is a word used to describe gender identity -  so if whatever gender you are now is the same as what was presumed for you at birth, you are cis.

Thanks, Katia...  so essentially, no change to gender...

More or less, yes, but in the case of trans people, it's not considered "changing" their gender, but rather it's confirming the gender they feel that they are. That's why it's now called gender confirmation surgery rather than a sex change. In the case of cis gender people, they feel that they are the gender they were assigned at birth. It's become a bit of a trigger word for a lot of hard right wing conservatives, and they don't see any need for it when instead you can say "trans" or "not trans". That thought process is so dumb to me, because you call it a table and chair, rather than a table and a NOT table.

Contributor_Gabriella_C

Member

Re: dear cis women,

Gabriella, it's so lovely to see you on the forums and commenting on shoots! And this is a great question, I hope it opens up some interesting conversation.
For me personally, (and I'm assuming this is similar for a lot of cis people) the experience of identifying with the gender I was assigned at birth is something I take for granted I think. The fact that I've never felt the need to take a step back and unpack my gender identity is a privilege. That's not to say I *haven't* taken a step back and done that - there have been times where I've really taken time to think about my gender and whether womanhood is something I always connect with. But ultimately, I have never felt like I *needed* to have that conversation with myself. The mind and body relationship that I have with my gender has been something that has always felt easy, and something I've never really had to challenge. There are other aspects of my identity and my life that I've had to spend a lot more time sitting with and unpacking and struggling with, but my gender is not one of those things, so I fully recognise that being cis has made my life easier than it might otherwise be.
In terms of my relationship to womanhood, it's a funny thing to speak about, because so many of the things I think are important in my understanding of womanhood are characteristics or experiences that are not inherently limited to women at all, but can be displayed by people of all genders. Things I've always felt are a part of my womanhood; the fact that I am soft, kind, emotional, open, a good listener, an empath, I feel things deeply, I am emotionally intelligent, I want to understand people on an emotional level, and I want people to perceive me as all of those things. I try to remain warm and calm and welcoming in my every interaction because I want the people in my life to feel warm and calm and welcome when they are around me.
Again, I fully recognise that these are not things that are inherently characteristics of women. But having said that, these are characteristics I was either raised to have (because it was 'ladylike' and it made those around me comfortable), or that I adopted as a defence mechanism!
I grew up almost exclusively with men - I lived with my dad for most of my childhood, as well as my brother, both of whom can be very stubborn, intense, aggressive and honestly, pretty burdened with toxic masculinity haha. So in being in a household with a lot of hardness and aggression, I learned that by being soft and small, I could, in some ways, opt out of the tense environment they were creating. They learned to treat me as delicate, and handle me with much more care than they would ever handle each other. And so, in this intensely masculine environment, I clung onto my sensitive nature as the thing that set me apart. I clung onto qualities that I saw displayed by the few women in my life, because these are the people I always felt warm and safe around; my teachers, friends' mothers, my own mother (when I did see her), and my Nanna.
Women are as unique as fingerprints - no woman's experience of womanhood is the same, and to some women, my ideas of being a woman might come across as superficial, or just not be relatable at all. But for me, I think that being so surrounded by men who made me feel unstable and anxious and often frightened, I actively sought out and adopted the characteristics that other women in my life offered me, and that has hugely shaped the woman I've become. Simply put, I think my experience of learning to be a woman had a lot to do with counteracting what I, at the time, believed it meant to be a man.
I feel very fortunate now that my life has shifted in such a way that I've now got far more women and nonbinary people in my life than men. That's absolutely not to say I don't like men; the men I do have in my life are so beautiful and kind, and make me feel very safe, but I'm thankful that I have now been able to find the community that I lacked in my formative years.
Thank you for this question, and I hope more women will be open to sharing, too.

Piper! How lovely to hear from you. Thank you so much for sharing your experience!
Your point on having the privilege of not *needing* to question gender is very important! That concept was first presented to me through an instagram post by @/rebeccaminorlicsw that was directed at cis people. It was like a form to fill out, asking

1) Describe your gender
2) Explain how you know you are that gender (you can't reference your body parts or just say "because I'm masculine/feminine")
3) Consider the privilege of not having to answer questions like this to prove the validity of your gender identity
4) Reflect on the experience

And I appreciate you putting so much effort into your answer, answering these questions even though I didn't even post them!
I appreciate you explaining the environment you grew up in as well, because that's a huge part of what shapes our identities (gender and other things). The line "I think my experience of learning to be a woman had a lot to do with counteracting what I, at the time, believed it meant to be a man" is really interesting as well! Sometimes I wonder if women are the opposite of men. I feel like the gender spectrum is so... complex. It's not a line, it's not even a circle or a sphere. It makes it even more interesting to explore though! And it really shows how, like you said, people are like fingerprints. Everyone's relationship with gender is unique!

PS, don't worry about the really long answer! I really enjoyed reading it!

blissed

Member

Re: dear cis women,

Contributor_Gabriella_- "I feel like the gender spectrum is so... complex. It's not a line, it's not even a circle or a sphere."

The best descriptor that I've encountered that seems well excepted in the trans community, is that  sexual differentiation has a bimodal distribution.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimodal_distribution

I think our problem is we only have names for 2 points on the curve. If we had 8 terms  in all, marking 6 more points on the curve,  we'd have 6 more well excepted words to help people describe how they feel more accurately.

Last edited by blissed (July 31st, 2021 03:37 AM)

ashmedi

Member

Re: dear cis women,

Hey Blissed !!!

Are you the same Blissed I knew on BA?  and maybe here as well?
If so, it has been years since I have seen your name...
If so, Welcome back!
and If Not, Welcome to the forum...

---

Ashmedi is an ancient demon of rage and lust.
Rage is not my thing, but I must admit to committing my favorite of the 7 deadly sins for most of the contributors

blissed

Member

Re: dear cis women,

Hi Ash it's me. I didn't post on BA it was IFM. I haven't checked in here for years, and didn't expect to see anything interesting, and there was something interesting so I couldn't not comment my thoughts. Hope you and Mrs Ash are well.

ashmedi

Member

Re: dear cis women,

Hi Ash it's me. I didn't post on BA it was IFM. I haven't checked in here for years, and didn't expect to see anything interesting, and there was something interesting so I couldn't not comment my thoughts. Hope you and Mrs Ash are well.

It's good to see you Blissed, and yes, I guess it was IFM, My vision caused me caused me to drop IFM, but I kept BA and ISM...
I'm still vertical and breathing, but unfortunately, Mrs Ashmedi passed away 8 years ago to Leukemia...
I hope all is well with you and yours, hope you got vaccinated and are staying safe...
It really is nice to see an old friend once again, thanks for remembering me

---

Ashmedi is an ancient demon of rage and lust.
Rage is not my thing, but I must admit to committing my favorite of the 7 deadly sins for most of the contributors

ashmedi

Member

Re: dear cis women,

I apologize for hijacking this thread Gabriella...
This forum used to give an option to email somebody, but they took that option away leaving me with no other method to talk to an old friend...

---

Ashmedi is an ancient demon of rage and lust.
Rage is not my thing, but I must admit to committing my favorite of the 7 deadly sins for most of the contributors