#1 February 19th, 2004 06:37 AM

Johnny_16

Member

why so little variety?

I like the general idea, and support it, but the lack of variety between models is such that it compromises the idea itself. I do not know if the limitation comes from the models themselves (ie, you only put up what is submitted to you), or from the editors choosing to go along with what they themselves prefer to see. Succinctly, it is this: It is difficult to accept this website as a comment on exhibitionism, nudity, solo digital photography, etc, when (with so few exceptions) every model is a skinny 21 year old white student/waitress alterno-pop type with piercings here and there. The lack of variety, the similarity, and the demographic homogenity of the exhibited models is striking and I wonder why this hasn't been noted yet by either users or management. Perhaps we are all so stuck in a genre rut that internet nudity is automatically equated with college girls.

Honestly, the 22 year olds have been done to death, here and everywhere else. If you have any submissions at all that are NOT this I strongly suggest that you move them to the top of the pile and give them preferential treatment. Not doing so makes the 'mission statement' seem affectatious, like mere flowery language descriptions of porn. Already the users are expecting and treating the site as just another wank-a-wank, based on the "ooh you're so hot, love your boobs" type comments that get posted. It's so easy to do plain old porn, and by not going beyond that very simple well-trod path (ie, naked college girls) you're just another jerkoff site, despite the high-falutin' language in your mission statement.

Once again I think the idea and the mission has tremendous merit, but for the sake of it, you've got to break out of the cliche.

walden2001

Member

Re: why so little variety?

Wow, what a can of worms you might seem to have opened up.  From a fellow subscriber's point of view, I too share some of your concerns. But as I watch this site develop and grow, the initial mission seems to have kinda taken a back seat to how this site has evolved. 

It is a good evolution however.

I have assumed the administrator puts up whatever is submitted, it's just that the most confident models seem to come from your described demographic.  It seems to be the pierced, student,white,22 year old models who seem to have the edge to break out of their comfort zones and submit folios.  I am hoping that eventually, as more 'potentials' see the site, and read the positive experience comments, that a variety of race/type/shape/age/gender will feature more prominantly. It's interesting to follow, and see as the challenge becomes harder and harder to make each folio more 'unique' from the last.

I think this site sometimes has a split personality, in that, on the one hand some photos are very artistic and creative, yet on the other, it relegates to the porn level so predominate in millions of other web sites.

But, her's the twist! Those other sites are largely controlled by men and their expoitation of the girls,... here, it is the models themselves who choose to share what they will or will-not show.  It's a big difference if you think about it.  If a girl decides to stick a finger up her ass, and photograph herself doing it, then fine. She chooses to exploit herself, but, it's really about her choice to do so, and that's where, the artform might truly lie.  It doesn't matter whether I liked it or not (and I didn't), the fact that she got off on it, and included it, is what validates it's inclusion. 
There are models here, who I wish would go further and show more, but that is my judgement, not theirs, and I sometimes like the fact that I don't control the agenda of how this site develops.
All up, it makes for some interesting discussion, and reading back through early forums, the thin line between art and porn is forever a shifting one with this site.
So sit back and enjoy the ride, and see where it takes you. I reckon we'll get more variety eventually, ..be patient.
Yeh sure, some of the comments are a bit disturbing, but that's the nature of broadcasting to the masses.  As long as the comments keep being positive, then I see no harm in them. 
I am very much looking forward to the video content coming soon, which, with audio, should give even more of a voice to the models.

I think the cliche you mentioned, is broken out of, it's just that we haven't noticed it yet so much.

Head

Administrator

Re: why so little variety?

Johnny, I suspect you're reacting more to the comments than to the folios.  We have recently shown some much older women, with more to come; and there has been more racial diversity recently than in the early months. 

What Walden says seems true in our experience.  The contributors who I've met seem mostly to have a developed sense of adventure and have reached a mindset where they feel in control of their lives enough to take risks and stand by them. 

Nobody gets turned away on grounds of age, body type, or race, but sometimes we decline folios from people who appear to be primarily fiscally motivated.  Next week a 46yo woman is coming to borrow a camera and I for one can't wait to see her set.

If you subscribe to the "overloads" category coming soon, you'll see the folios which aren't making the front page daily.   Mostly they're sets which lack variety within themselves, or the technical qualities aren't there, or they have iinsuficient face shots (it's a prerequisite that the artist can't conceal her identity) or insufficient nudity to be deemed within the spirit of the project.  You might find them actually more interesting but I suspect most regular sponsos won't.  If you write to me when the new site is launched I'll be happy to give you a free upgrade for a month so you can see for yourself.

Thanks for your feedback.  I stand by the mission statement but I can't say it's embraced wholeheartedly by all the contributors.  As for the comments, well that's something we can't control, except for executing the occasional obvious troll.

djdandsafc

Member

Re: why so little variety?

Hi

I agree with Walden, the girls being able to shoot themselves is a major difference. They are presenting themselves in the way they choose and thank goodness for that. We don't get the same standard poses and faked expressions. Each model however explicitly they present themselves therefore I think retains a good degree of dignity and beauty.

And though I think that Johnny is right about perhaps a lack of variety in terms of ethnicity, there have been some young ladies in their 30s recently. And I think there has been a good variety in terms of look, from the blondes to the more 'alt'/punk look etc, glasses. Many of the girls are real enough to not have taken a razor to every area of their body and actually have pubic hair/armpit hair, a refreshing change from your blonde airbrushed Playboy model surely!

Now this site is not perfect but I think its a damn good example of how to combat mainstream porn and the messages it sends out about how girls and their bodies should look (often to sell more product!). If sites like this can show guys how sexy these real girls are in their natural state and also show the gals there are loads of us that love them just as they are, imperfections and all, then great!

And I may be one of the guys that posts comments about the girls bodies sometimes but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate the more artistic sets. But I'm not going to be pretentious about it and say "Oh I love the colours in this set etc", when I'd rather tell the subject how nice she is. Of course if I think the model has done a real interesting set, I'll let them know I appreciate it but what's so wrong with compliments about looks and the rest, do the girls get sick of us telling them how nice/interesting/funny they are? (If so please post and tell us to stop it and say critical things instead!)

I personally look forward perhaps to some video content, as I have a feeling some of these girls have a lot more to share than can be simply shown in the pictures, Definitely its more interesting to get to know more about the girl's personality, interests etc, especially the girls on ISM  who I reckon are much more interesting than your average porn model. Meanwhile I say thank goodness for ISM girls and the site's celebration of the fact there is such a wide variety of sizes/shapes/looks/personalities out there.

Colonel Quack

Member

Re: why so little variety?

Funny, I think the "variety" on the site is fine.  I've so refreshing to see normal girls with armpit hair.  Or hairy legs.  So what if some girls aren't as creative as others?  As long it's what they want to do, I think it's beautiful.  Maybe I'm a bit of a porn connoisseur, but ..  Wait, I don't now how to finish that sentence.  *smiles*

Sure, I've seen "professionally" done photo shoots with "beautiful" girls.  And most of them bore me compared to what a girl can do all by herself.

First posts always feel ackward.

harvey

Member

Re: why so little variety?

I tend to agree w/ the lack of variety. It seems all of the models are 22 yrs old....wear no make up, and have a few piercings. I'm not a member yet...so my opinion is based on
the photos in the free section. After a couple of months of coming here...i notice a distinct pattern has emerged. Not to nit pick,but without make up the models appear androgynous(sp)....butch looking. I prefer a more feminine look....its just my preference though. I like the site...and i realize the limitations of photographing oneself. I'd  just like to see more women who appeal to my ideal of femeninity.

Johnny_16

Member

Re: why so little variety?

I think things are looking up. It looks like the project is gathering weight and financial success; the extra sets are helping. Hopefully diversity could be one of the primary aims of the project, if only to encourage the shy and skeptical (and non 22yo) to contribute.