#1 February 23rd, 2015 08:13 AM

blissed

Member

I like where this is going

http://abcnews.go.com/Lifestyle/changin … d=29086195

Last edited by blissed (February 23rd, 2015 08:14 AM)

Laney

Administrator

Re: I like where this is going

Interesting... Now the modelling world is opening up to extremely beautiful, fit young people with one or two unusual features. Forgive me if this sounds cynical but it doesn't seem like that much of a huge change to me. Mainstream modelling agencies have always featured unusual looking people, now they're featuring new kinds of unusual looking people. I don't think this will lead to them hiring models who represent a more 'average' picture of humanity; the kind of person who you overlook in the street while you're staring at the gorgeous albino man. I got the impression that's where you think this is heading but I might have misunderstood you.

I'm glad that Shaun Ross, Chantelle Brown-Young etc have become such famous models. They're all gorgeous and completely deserve their status. It's just that their beauty is so obvious to me that it seems weird to point it out the way abc news has.

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Laney

Administrator

Re: I like where this is going

By the way I'm going on a little holiday for the next three days, be back on Friday!

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trevor

Member

Re: I like where this is going

Happy holiday, Devochka.  I hope it is full of delights.

mori910a

Guest

Re: I like where this is going

I tend to think that ISM and IFM work so well because the people who contribute are already "average" and show that average is often more beautiful than "perfect"; and that's mainly because we get to see something of their personality instead of just their bodies.

blissed

Member

Re: I like where this is going

The fashion industry since the 1960s has taken one tiny part of the wealth of hotness thats out there and promoted it as perfect. So it's understandable that people talk about average or perfect. Part of a social norm that comes from rating all hotness against one look. I think it's much nicer to shift into a new paradigm of simply appreciating diversity. Accepting that there's a range of different looks and a range of different preferences. If we thought of music in the same way we do hotness then the media would only play chart pop music and everyone who made or liked other forms of music would feel average and inadequate. Which is ridiculous.  Shaun Ross and Chantelle Brown-Young aren't gorgeous to some people. But they don't have to be gorgeous to everybody.

So I like the way the modelling and fashion industry is going, in gradually accepting a variety of appearance and fitness (with vitiligo and amputees). If I was in that industry I would value criticism so I could improve towards the goal of expressing a love and appreciation of diversity. I don't think anyone in that video is gorgeous. But I don't have to to respect the way they look enough to be impressed by the clothes they're selling.

blissed

Member

Re: I like where this is going

Oriole Cullen from the Victoria and Albert Museum has a good take on why the fashion industry is changing at the end of this segment. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-31596455

viva

Member

Re: I like where this is going

I think what Dev was saying was that, it didn't feel so much like the industry actually diversifying or celebrating difference - at some point in the video, after the segment about the amputee and the woman with Down's syndrome, a fashion critic even says right out,

"I think for the designers who are always trying to push the edges of their creativity, I think they're always searching for something that is different, some thing that will surprise us. We should celebrate the moment, but not necessarily assume that the moment is going to lead to a new era."

In this way, the attempt to showcase these differences - amputeeism, vitiligo, Down's syndrome (that was the worst) - rather feels more like the fetishization of difference rather than the inclusion or acceptance of it, rather like a bunch of posh people bringing in a bearded woman and a pair of Siamese twins to an event and tittering behind cupped palms - isn't this just droll!

blissed

Member

Re: I like where this is going

If I was a designer I'd regularly show with someone who has downs syndrome with no problem. Designers are a cross-section of humans, I wouldn't like to accuse them all of cynical exploitation. Though they certainly  glory in the attention they get for being 1st to show any kind of diversity. I don't think they're in charge of the agenda, they share it with their customers. I think the interview with Oriole Cullen identifies the impetus for the change. That fashion is consumed online with it's 2 way dialog. They can't just move on to where a few influential designers want to go, (Something magazines use to enable) unless their online public does.  Sometimes the blogasphere and pinterest show there is demand for somewhere they always personally wanted to go. Andrej Pejic has created attention for designers but opened more doors for trans gender models. Tess Munster http://www.tessmunster.com opens more doors for large models.  Designers like to show with models who are one size and skinny because the fabric costs of the collection are cheaper. If public demand eventually says they can't get away with that. then they can't.

viva

Member

Re: I like where this is going

yes, I hear you Blissed! it's an interesting topic. It's also a weird one for me because I am actually not sure what I want for the future of fashion or design or beauty. So I'm keen to keep thinking about it.

trevor

Member

Re: I like where this is going

As everyone must surely know, what is considered ideal beauty differs with the culture and most everywhere changes over time.  I myself love love seeing these differences and changes as reflected in art from archaic, prehistoric times to modern times.  However, I do understand that those who do not possess that "ideal" which is currently in fashion might feel inadequate especially adolescent girls and young women--and this is indeed a shame at best and at worst dangerous to health.

Those of us who see beauty beyond what is the current perception of the ideal are the more fortunate both in appreciating great art and today's diversity of beautiful women (thank you ISM).

Let me add that from my anecdotal observation and experience there is no correlation between the ideal beauty of the day and the day's femme fatales.  For the latter, personality is nearly all.  And, as for the survival of the species, I dare say that "beautiful" women don't have more babies than less obviously attractive ones.

trevor

Member

Re: I like where this is going

Blissed and the others who have commented to this post, I neglected to say earlier that I find your observations and thoughts interesting--the more so as I am not at all knowledgable about the fashion and advertising industry notwithstanding my having fairly well formed views on aesthetics (subjective as they might be).  Thank you all very much.

blissed

Member

Re: I like where this is going

Thanks Trev I think culture has an obsession with the way women look and their personal style because it values male desire so much more. If we put more value on female desire, the way men look and our personal style would be a more prominent issue and redress the balance to something more mentally healthy.

So right now we have skin tight clothes, short back and sides and bushy beards Long on top again with perhaps the tiny crown ponytail. That so many conform to these narrow choices shows a kind of mixture of  what's available, a little bit of insecurity, and aesthetic media brainwashing that changes our subjective relativity.

Viva I like that "weird" or new  fashions create their own little event everywhere someone is brave enough to wear them. and an atmosphere of experimentation. I think 3D scans and 3D printing could do that. Starting with spectacles that fit over your nose perfectly, tailored exactly to suite your face. Then shoes and jewellery, then belts and perfectly fitting bras, finally (the hardest to print) perfectly fitting clothes.  Be really interesting to see what effect all that has on what people wear when the availability problem is solved. Trends could be consumer created and worn less through ia negative insecurity and more from social solidarity and because they're really liked.

trevor

Member

Re: I like where this is going

"I think culture has an obsession with the way women look and their personal style because it values male desire so much more."  Is this why frequently so many men dress like slobs or as if they've dressed in the dark while their women partners are dressed with obviously great attention to how they look?  This has been my observation in the many places I've lived in Europe, NZ and the U.S.  And do women in general truly like the look and feel of a "three-day" beard?  Thomas Pink makes quite beautiful and understated shirts and even their current ads feature only men sporting such unshaven faces--presumably in a bid to win over a younger market.  What do you all think and how do you feel?

viva

Member

Re: I like where this is going

I love beards

trevor

Member

Re: I like where this is going

Viva, a beard is one thing; do you also love the stubble on the face of a man the length after about three days?

Laney

Administrator

Re: I like where this is going

Sometimes it can be a little scratchy but that's a minor nuisance. All in all I like it, as well as beards and clean shaven faces. I like them all.

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viva

Member

Re: I like where this is going

I think I wouldn't like stubble but I don't think I've been exposed to it! I think all the men I kiss are scruffy. I don't like stubble on myself that's for sure... I love having natural hair growing on my body, and I love the hair growing on his.

viva

Member

Re: I like where this is going

WAIT this is a lie. There have been times where he's shaved his beard and then yeah the kissing is pain. But it gets soft pretty quick - maybe even before 3 days.