#1 January 30th, 2015 10:13 PM

blissed

Member

Virtual reality porn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLqVxC6JWIM

Fe3Cman

Member

Re: Virtual reality porn

Next feature for IFM?

Laney

Administrator

Re: Virtual reality porn

Haha, I don't think so... I'm pretty curious as to what the experience is like, I didn't get a very good sense of it from the video. The huge NSFW circles kinda got in the way. Interesting to see how uncomfortable all the men were when it came time to see things from the female perspective. It seemed like only one of the women preferred that to the male perspective.

Maybe it was the camera crew there, or the fact it was their first time, but they all seemed way too weirded out by the whole thing to enjoy what they were watching. Do you think it would just take some getting used to then it would be significantly better than watching a video? Or do you think videos/photos will always be the best?

---

Editor/Admin/Forum queen

blissed

Member

Re: Virtual reality porn

3D photographic virtual models would be interesting. And interesting to make too as they could be a total creation of your imagination.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_vQ8nJ8NF8

I've tried the Marvellous designer free 15 day trial and it is very good, but importing your own avatars that aren't slim from another bit of software called
Makehuman is pretty hard. I made some porn using Makehuman and Blender. I was very horny all November  then I got bored. The software is all great but if you try and push it into total realism it just won't make it yet. You can se that in the fashion show. But give it 3 or 4  years or if I read about a new development I might try it again.

viva

Member

Re: Virtual reality porn

I feel like hyper-porn (which is what I'm calling modern porn, with its exaggerated features, makeup, postures and gestures etc) is a seriously intense experience even when watching in the regular way. I've been in porn-like situations before in my life as well, when I lived in LA, and it is really overwhelming. So I can completely understand why these people, going from normal work days to full on immersive porn, would be really taken aback and rendered uncomfortable.

I found it really unpleasant as well, the general reactions to experiencing sex from the female POV. And the way that it didn't seem to be a feminine POV at all, but just the mass-marketed male gaze with the camera flipped around. Still all about the dick. It's just so strange that they don't twig onto how odd it is that the female sexual experience is received with such disgust... didn't any of these smart kids think for a moment about that?

I really crave virtual reality in theory, always have loved the future and anything to do with it... but I think as I get older I'm getting a bit more precious... also my experience here at feck has opened my eyes to the ways of objectification and how insidious it all is. And I saw an Oculus Rift VR program that lets you scan (I think?) the face and/or body of someone in real life, and import their image into your game. https://vimeo.com/64769947 - I think that's what it does, at least.

I think this woman is a model, but her face is someone's face.

The way they have her arranged is so sexual. Lines and lines of her, open inviting face, breast thrust foward, ass out, pulling down panties, etc etc. Here, he's modelling shading - https://vimeo.com/61550389- she's shaved, and she's got a handprint on her ass.

I'm all for people owning the memory of me in their head and in their hearts - I allow that people can fantasize as they like. But when I think about a boy blinking at me from behind his headset while I struggle to carry my bags or trip over the hem of my dress, him recording my image and taking it back home to build virtual models of me who will do anything, say anything... ergh. It just chills my blood. Are we ready for this?

blissed

Member

Re: Virtual reality porn

You need a special sitting to build a virtual model for a realistic avatar that you can do anything with, that has no shadows and that lets you virtually light it. You can't do that from one secret photo, as it has shadows and only one angle. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GiLAOtjHNo

You could make a 3D photographic statue  from a single photo as long as you view it from only one restricted angle So it's probably a bit paranoid to think about someone using your likeness right now.

I used MakeHuman and ended up with a variety of "people" I was comfortable using http://www.makehuman.org
I still got bored and moved on to trying to model my own likeness from photos where I learned what I've shared above. I'd love to make 3D characters and play every part in a movie. Made a version of me that is stocky and large built. Making a female version of me would be the next thing but all this was taking up time for what is essentially a figure that looks a little bit toy town, so I'll try later when the software gives better results.

Using someone else's likeness needs their permission and willingness to sit for a shadowless 3D photo session and scan. I think the opportunity for creativity and to explore morphs of yourself using VR to experience life as another gender or a different person (Obama? ) is the most interesting.

viva

Member

Re: Virtual reality porn

Yeah, you're right that it's a bit early to get paranoid! But my sci-fi trained brain can't help making leaps

What do you think of the concept though, once we do get to that point? Would it be ok to populate your virtual reality world with models of real people who haven't consented to be part of that world?

blissed

Member

Re: Virtual reality porn

Viva when the time comes would you want to populate your virtual reality world with models of people who haven't consented. The tech will be there for everyone on their phone and you will have lots 3D photos long before software can turn them into avatars. I think for most people including me the answer is no. But right now there are exceptions. A friend has already uploaded my photo into a website that turned me into a dancing elf And I've been popey the sailor man So it kind of depends on what your likeness is used for and who's using it.

Some people I know would object to both those uses. When it comes to someone obsessing about someone they've seen in porn or who's a celebrity, I tend to think 3D may slightly lessen that. Because it fulfils your fantasy and leaves nothing left to want. I did some fairly kinky stuff with the avatars I made in MakeHuman and I found the likelihood of something that is about to happen is more erotic than watching it happen. Total fulfilment is the idea done and from there we've seen it and we go to boredom.

Also I think the tendency for certainly most users of Feck is in the opposite direction. I very quickly stopped using the work of people I was talking to on the forum, as it didn't subconsciously feel right and as moderator on the IFM forum I know a fair few members there feel the same way. Which kind of conflicts with my conscious logical feelings that being in porn is something to celebrate just like being good at music, and I'd never stop listening to someones music just because I know them. I think it takes time to convince the subconscious after all those years of sex and sexuality being seen as guilty and all sexual interest being seen as automatically selfish. I think that's it. I think nude bodies are natural and there's nothing wrong with walking around naked, but my subconscious won't let me walk out the door like that Full marks to Billy Connelly for running around Trafalgar square naked.

blissed

Member

Re: Virtual reality porn

I bumped into this 1st thing this morning. Project tango. If it can combine photos with the 3D info it collects we could scan around a space or a still person or object and record a textured unrendered model http://www.itproportal.com/2015/02/05/g … l-product/

Laney

Administrator

Re: Virtual reality porn

Viva when the time comes would you want to populate your virtual reality world with models of people who haven't consented.

Maybe not Viva, but I think lots of people would want to do that. 'Revenge porn', leaked naked photos of celebrities and porn that exploits inexperienced participants are all hugely popular just because they violate consent in some way. Even just attaching "[name]'s lawyers want this photo removed from the internet" is a sure fire way to make sure hundreds of thousands of people see it and want to spread it around. For example today I heard about Robert Mugabe for the first time in forever because apparently he doesn't want anyone to see this photo of him falling down:

---

Editor/Admin/Forum queen

blissed

Member

Re: Virtual reality porn

Isn't that just the same as the 2D world we have now? Though wouldn't 3D that's indistinguishable from reality mean revenge porn would be invalid. Along with video evidence in court? Seeing all the celebs from Winston Churchilll to Jennifer Lawrence or any and all of your friends and family having sex or wanking or jumping 12 feet high or whatever. Wouldn't that just get boring after a while when you've seen it all?

viva

Member

Re: Virtual reality porn

I'm not sure it would ever get boring... as long as there are people who will feel violated to any extent, violating them will always be something some humans will be keen to do, I think. That's why I think consent is essential, essentially sacred, as it were, to being human. As long as consent is essential, lack of consent will also remain a thrill.

I have trouble imagining a world populated by humans in which nothing is private, nothing is sacred. If sexuality were completely public, I reckon people would fantasize about other people eating, or pooing, or putting on their clothes, or talking about their deepest fears. Something would replace sexuality if we were to completely remove it from taboo, and then people would want in on it without earning the trust. Which is what consent is all about, trust-building and respect.

I think revenge porn wouldn't be invalid, I have a feeling that even perfect virtual reality would need to have some built-in tell-tale, even if it's subtle, to distinguish it (or recordings of it) from reality. Otherwise there would no longer be any reality.

blissed

Member

Re: Virtual reality porn

Well perhaps it's just me that finds it  boring already. I very often find political cartoons and satire arrogant and abusive even if they lampoon someone I disagree with. And the public ownership of celebrities by the media and their intrusions is pretty awful. So that most often unquestioned culture of personal disrespect is being spread to everyone and the feck forums were full of it 9 years ago. So yeah, I wouldn't be immune from this, but your bubble of reality is different to mine as I don't make any kind of living in front of a camera.

I think you have a good point about being able to examine a fake forensically. We could reverse engineer the material because we know how it's made and work created by imaging software is meant for human eyes to see even at retina resolution. But  a fake could be intelligently scanned at microscopic resolution. Right now a photoshopped photo will have unaligned pixels all over the place. Intelligent creation software could provide an align all pixels button. But they'll likely comply to the pattern of their algorithm. Eventually though there is a possibility that the creation software tests the output work using all forensic tools and adjusts until there is no detection.

So this is the second 'once we get to that point'

If it's usually undetectable and looks real we're back in a time before video or film evidence.  If it's a movie or 3D VR experience it didn't happen until it's proven that it did. That might desensatise people in the way I'm hoping with it just getting boring.  UFO sitings are fascinating if you can trust their real but when all media is not real by default, it's not fascinating.  Though having unconsenting footage circulation of someone being ridiculed like star wars kid will still happen and that person would still get upset. But on the other hand that video went viral because it was real.

For me though the upside to convincing looking 3D will be an ability to make movies in the same way we write novels. A total pure construct allowing us to communicate all kinds of imagined alternative ways of being. A bit like when we find archaeological evidence of behaviour thats very different from todays norms. 3D seems like it'll be very double edged with the awful and amazing.

blissed

Member

Re: Virtual reality porn

P.S. this is what I mean. Didn't take me long to bump into this from a link on my local newspaper website. It's heartless and awful. http://caliser.com/horribly-aged-celebr … hchronicle

viva

Member

Re: Virtual reality porn

ugh I clicked that link and then forgot, and came back to it and couldn't understand why this horrible thing was open! yet i clicked and looked. made it all the way to gorgeous J-lo before actually bursting into tears! it's all so freakin mean.

blissed

Member

Re: Virtual reality porn

My experience is the person who wrote that would be really nice to you if they want something off you. If your good looking or have money. They'd fake themselves into your affections. At least when you have nothing they want they expose themselves as mean and your rid of them. That's the advantage of getting older. It's really nice to be desired or admired and there are people who make you feel really good and are unselfish. But there are people who are selfish and rip you off. sometimes  profoundly.  I often wonder if there was a more complete explanation of Robbin Williams suicide, and then I heard his wife and children are fighting each other over his possessions. He did say "Worse than being lonely is being surrounded by people who make you feel alone."

I have a friend who has a son and their partners buggered off having got what they wanted. I'm pretty sure even for the fact they have a child to look after their next partner will be better. And being older means your not pristine looking but the genuine is a little more accessible.

viva

Member

Re: Virtual reality porn

I agree... I always felt a little worried for my more beautiful friends for this reason. People will take advantage of you and flatter you in order to get what they want - I never really had that experience. I've always felt that I had control over my life and my interactions, and I think a big part of that is that I haven't spent my life overwhelmed by men who pursued me based on physical attraction or charisma. I had sort of an opposite problem, always being "the cool girl", the buddy, the slut, never the girlfriend - but now that I'm older and I know my worth, I'm comfortable identifying when someone likes me for who I am.. and while I can feel a little jealous of more beautiful girls being pursued, I also feel relief that I can generally trust a man's intentions, since I am not generally the one being seduced.

Laney

Administrator

Re: Virtual reality porn

Ugh gross. I only looked at the first two photos but I bet the majority of them are women. (Also how infuriating is it when websites make you click to a new page to view each photo... just trying to squeeze as much ad revenue out of you as they can). People are so cruel to women as they get older. Today there was a facebook "trending topic", which covers news and other important events, devoted to Uma Thurman looking "unrecognizable" and having a "new face", in other words looking different to how she did two decades ago. Renee Zellwegger got the same treatment only a few months ago. Makes me so angry!

---

Editor/Admin/Forum queen

blissed

Member

Re: Virtual reality porn

Devochka I haven't actually looked at this one. I didn't want to. I've just seen the front pic of Bridget Bardot. I have seen one other and I keep seeing links to them in newspaper websites, so they're as visible as if they were on the newsagents stand with the newspapers. I think that's a big reason why I don't like them, people post all kinds of mean stuff online but you don't have to search for these, they're there available for all ages.

Viva good point about knowing your own worth.and  I think your probably in  a social space where people are a little more covert. If 2 people are attracted and they both know their own worth, their not hotly pursuing but trying to deal with the sexual tension while getting to know each other.

viva

Member

Re: Virtual reality porn

If 2 people are attracted and they both know their own worth, their not hotly pursuing but trying to deal with the sexual tension while getting to know each other.

This is such a perfect way to put it... I'm enjoying this process right now and it is incredibly fun. I've never experienced anything like it.

trevor

Member

Re: Virtual reality porn

I've been enjoying this discourse between the three of you, Viva, Devochka and Blissed.  What you each have had to say has been interesting, insightful and well stated.  You all seem so thoughtful, considerate and well grounded.  Viva, I'm glad you are in such a happy place in your life right now.

blissed

Member

Re: Virtual reality porn

Thanks Viva. Be nice to include it in sex education classes for kids.

Hi Trevor thanks