Love And Sex, Sex And Love

catt · September 13th, 2005 05:32 PM

I'm the type of girl who goes into rather deep hibernation - staying home, getting fat on comfort food, being generally anti-social - for long periods of time, often 2+ years - in between relationships (when in love, however, I chase the coyotes/tumbleweeds from my knickers with a straw broom and am cobwebby no more, but that's another tale).

Even as a young adult, the whole concept of the one-night-stand never really appealed. Sure, I'd had a few, but they were typically soulless, meaningless dalliances, without substance and that intimate connection you reach with someone you actually respect and care about. In many ways, I envied those who could bonk about quite happily without any emotional connection...the ability to treat a one-night-stand for what it actually is - spur of the moment, hot and risque sex, without strings, for the pure sake of instant sexual gratification. But they left me feeling kinda empty, and regretful (and I'm not a fan of regrets).

So my question/s to you today is this; How important is it for you to love - or even like - someone when engaging in sexual activities? Is sex Better with comfort/familiarity involved, or just Different? And why do so many people equate sex with love, even if only temporarily? I'm curious to hear what some of the regulars have to say on this topic...

voyeur2 · September 13th, 2005 10:35 PM

catt wrote:

So my question/s to you today is this; How important is it for you to love - or even like - someone when engaging in sexual activities? Is sex Better with comfort/familiarity involved, or just Different? And why do so many people equate sex with love, even if only temporarily? I'm curious to hear what some of the regulars have to say on this topic...

Sex, aside from the actual slithering about of mucus membranes is all about communication. Playing off scenarios, foreplay, cuddling, anticipating the next, remembering the last, drilling in to the fantasy world of your partner - all enhance the experience.

So the one night stand is the least complicated, least satisfying. It leads some to years of one nighters looking for the whole deal in a wrongly labelled package that never satisfies.

The more often it does not satisfy, the more reluctant they become to 'commitment'?

The better they get at going right to the sex part, the less they learn about building a relationship.

liandra_dahl · September 13th, 2005 11:51 PM

catt wrote:

So my question/s to you today is this; How important is it for you to love - or even like - someone when engaging in sexual activities? Is sex Better with comfort/familiarity involved, or just Different? And why do so many people equate sex with love, even if only temporarily? I'm curious to hear what some of the regulars have to say on this topic...

I've not had too many one night stands, and I'm not massively keen on them. They do dissappoint and for all the reasons Voyeur pointed out. I've had two where the sex was mind blowing and I have to say I was gutted never to see those people again and repeat the experience and see where it might have led. The things is, I think 1 night stands where the sex is mind blowing most of the time turn into relationships, though sometimes very brief ones, because when the sex is that good I often want to go back for more, and hopefully that would be reciprocated.

So I have had relationships that started from what could potentially have been 1 night stands, I have had about maybe 15 of those.

Generally, I want sex with someone I would also want to have a relationship with, and they have usually been an aquaintance or a friend of mine for sometime prior to bonking.

I think sex is better with feelings/ emotion attached. I think sex is best when you are in love. Sex can be fun with out either but I don't think it compares in satisfaction.

People equate sex and love because they are so clearly interconnected. I know sex is a pleasure pursuit now, but both the drive for sexual satisfaction and the desire for love stems from older primative instincts to breed. They have origins in the same place and though they stemmed off with some degree of separation in the evolution of human behaviour, they are still inseparably linked. Sex is just as important to me as love and I would never have a relationship that had one with out the other. Saying that I don't believe in happy ever afters, or the concept of "The One".

I'm rambling, sorry...

nagaloo · September 14th, 2005 02:26 AM

Although love is a word I find so inadequate to describe different levels of emotion, it is involved with me to some degree so I use it as a general term. I have recently started 2 friendships. One woman is 55 and the other is 44 and as long as I go with the fact they are being truthful with me, they want a friend who is fun in bed but still want the freedom of being single. We all do our things and get together when time allows. Both women are aware of each other but havent met yet. Maybe they never will. At 39 heading for 40 I dont know if I am capable of a love that rips your heart and soul out kind of relationship. We met online and had lots of fun from the first night we met. Right in bed after chatting a bit. Its not a one night stand but it will be something that lasts for a while at least. And we had common interests other than sex to begin with. So we hope to stay friends regardless of how the sex goes.

I dont know what to call it but so far it works. Its just so nice to get that close to someone and not have to make other compromises to other parts of your life. I find it fills in a void that I had for years.

Stew

zille · September 14th, 2005 05:03 AM

catt wrote:

So my question/s to you today is this; How important is it for you to love - or even like - someone when engaging in sexual activities? Is sex Better with comfort/familiarity involved, or just Different? And why do so many people equate sex with love, even if only temporarily? I'm curious to hear what some of the regulars have to say on this topic...

Catt asks -- I rush to respond to Her Felineness!

I am a strange mix, myself (which will surprise no forum regular!)

I am as poly as they come: monogomy makes me miserable. Yet I love all the people I am "fucking" right now.

For "one night stands," I am only really interested in making out. I like kissing cute strangers (kissing a goth chick on the dance-floor of a night club, making out with two gay guys at a party, etc.), pressing against them and letting our tongues play together -- but that's as far as I like to go. It's just fun, exciting, arousing -- a kind of tingle that lets you know you're alive and the world is spinning.

But for real intimacy (the kind you can catch an STD from...), I really only want the ones I love and trust. Those are the people who I want to share that level of personal revelation with. This is probably increased for me by the fact that I like to do kinky things, and you don't want a complete stranger tying you you up ... but even when it comes down to "vanilla" things ... for instance, right now I'd *really* love to go down on either one of my girlfriends, but the thought of going out and meeting a random girl and just having sex with her doesn't
do much for me....

catt · September 14th, 2005 11:25 AM

voyeur2 wrote:

The more often it does not satisfy, the more reluctant they become to 'commitment'?
The better they get at going right to the sex part, the less they learn about building a relationship.

Both good points, and ones that I tend to agree with myself - however many of my friends actually seem to prefer to remain single and flit from bed to bed, so perhaps, for some, it does satisfy on all required levels? Diversity and the thrill of the hunt/chase, stacked against familiarity and emotional intimacy. I lean towards the latter, but that doesn't mean I don't occasionally wish I had the ability to follow through on the former without the negative thoughts and feelings that tend arise out of it.

catt · September 14th, 2005 11:49 AM

liandra_dahl wrote:

I think sex is better with feelings/ emotion attached. I think sex is best when you are in love. Sex can be fun with out either but I don't think it compares in satisfaction.

Agreed 100%.

liandra_dahl wrote:

Sex is just as important to me as love and I would never have a relationship that had one with out the other. Saying that I don't believe in happy ever afters, or the concept of "The One".

I'm exactly the same - I believe that sex is integral to a relationship, as is love (which encompasses such things as trust and respect, amongst other things). And neither do I believe in The One. People and their personalities are constanting evolving, and their partners often evolve at different rates, in different directions. You can go through life with many The Ones...but I see how some people treat love and life as kinda like Musical Chairs. Whoever you're with with the music stops is the one you settle on - whether you truly love them or not.

liandra_dahl wrote:

I'm rambling, sorry...

No, not rambling Ms. Dahl - this is all pertinent, and a generous insight into your character. As said, I was interested to hear what yourself and other ISM forum members/regulars had to say on this topic, and you never disappoint.

catt · September 14th, 2005 11:55 AM

nagaloo wrote:

I dont know what to call it but so far it works.

If it works, feels right, and you're getting all positives out of it, then it's the perfect arrangement for you, Stew. Adults who make the decision to instigate sexual friendships without the atypical ties of monogamous romantics often get exactly what they require from the scenario. It's only when/if emotions get involved, people become too attached, or jealousies flare up that things start to get tricky and descend into territory more often reserved for volatile relationships.

Am pleased to hear you're doing well in your own romantic escapades, and that you appear to be happier with how things are going in comparison to a while back.

catt · September 14th, 2005 12:18 PM

zille wrote:

Catt asks -- I rush to respond to Her Felineness!
I am a strange mix, myself (which will surprise no forum regular!)

You're a regular bag of licorice allsorts, Ms. Zille, and the forums just wouldn't be the same if you weren't!

zille wrote:

I am as poly as they come: monogomy makes me miserable. Yet I love all the people I am "fucking" right now.
For "one night stands," I am only really interested in making out. I like kissing cute strangers (kissing a goth chick on the dance-floor of a night club, making out with two gay guys at a party, etc.), pressing against them and letting our tongues play together -- but that's as far as I like to go. It's just fun, exciting, arousing -- a kind of tingle that lets you know you're alive and the world is spinning.
But for real intimacy (the kind you can catch an STD from...), I really only want the ones I love and trust. Those are the people who I want to share that level of personal revelation with. This is probably increased for me by the fact that I like to do kinky things, and you don't want a complete stranger tying you you up ... but even when it comes down to "vanilla" things ... for instance, right now I'd *really* love to go down on either one of my girlfriends, but the thought of going out and meeting a random girl and just having sex with her doesn't
do much for me....

"But for real intimacy (the kind you can catch an STD from...), I really only want the ones I love and trust" = it sounds like you have the best of both worlds, Ms. Zille. It's a responsible safe medium - the necessary sparks and thrills which are imperitive to keep a girl like you running at full capacity, plus the required intimacies which cater to your emotion and intellect (on par, if I can be bold, with the former) - basically, with all the benefits from each end of the spectrum. Clever.

(No wonder you're always so bloody happy!)

xxxCattxxx

MrPicMe · September 14th, 2005 07:37 PM

catt wrote:

How important is it for you to love - or even like - someone when engaging in sexual activities?

IT IS LIFES BREATH...

Sex is a tangeble outreach of the feelings and emotions I have for the one I love...

zille · September 15th, 2005 04:45 AM

catt wrote:

You're a regular bag of licorice allsorts, Ms. Zille, and the forums just wouldn't be the same if you weren't!
it sounds like you have the best of both worlds, Ms. Zille. It's a responsible safe medium - the necessary sparks and thrills which are imperitive to keep a girl like you running at full capacity, plus the required intimacies which cater to your emotion and intellect (on par, if I can be bold, with the former) - basically, with all the benefits from each end of the spectrum. Clever.
(No wonder you're always so bloody happy!)

Hehehe -- well, not always happy, sweet Catt -- I have not figured out how to remove all obstacles or problems from my life, yet!

All the of the lessons I've learned that I use to make my life as full of love and sex as it is now, all came out of lots of drama and suffering. It's not easy to be poly in this society, and it's very much a "build your own model of a relationship" sort of thing. And I don't have all the kinks worked out yet ... uh, wait, I want the kinks, I mean those nasty little problems that come up just when you think everything is just grand.

And I stole all the ideas from Heinlein anyway (and the forum lads and I were discussing in another post!) If you want to have relationships like that, he is the best guide you could read!

nihilonx · September 15th, 2005 10:33 AM

zille wrote:

And I stole all the ideas from Heinlein anyway (and the forum lads and I were discussing in another post!) If you want to have relationships like that, he is the best guide you could read!

My friend just called me last night and told me to read some Heinlein -- synchronicity is speaking to me. Once I'm done with my copy of "Lunar Park" I'll get right on it.

In the meantime, my comments on sex and love...I enjoy both.

liz · September 16th, 2005 01:49 AM

It's funny. I was never the kind of gal who thought that sex had to be with someone you love, I was always of the mindset that it could just be something fun that you share with someone you dig.

But then I fell in love. The crazy, life-altering, all-consuming love. And my feelings about sex changed. I now find myself saying things like, "How can you have just fucked her? How can it not MEAN anything?" This is very weird for me because I certainly wasn't in love with my now-husband the first time I slept with him. Yes, he was wonderful, and I enjoyed spending time with him, and I felt more comfortable with him than I ever had with anyone, but mostly I was just hot for him! So...even though the relationship that led me to a point where I can't fathom the thought of sex without love began with that very thing, I find myself bewildered by people who just indiscriminately jump in bed with any cute person who is willing.

I'm struggling to come to terms with the fact that something that was once true for me, but now is unthinkable, is still perfectly fine for other people...I don't begrudge those who look at sex as simply a fun way of spending an evening with someone (no different than going to the movies!) and sometimes I'm even a smidgen jealous of those people. But the person I am now is not the person I was five, six, seven years ago. And the person I am now can't imagine bedding someone I'm not in love with...

Markk02474 · September 16th, 2005 01:24 PM

liz wrote:

... I certainly wasn't in love with my now-husband the first time I slept with him. Yes, he was wonderful, and I enjoyed spending time with him, and I felt more comfortable with him than I ever had with anyone, but mostly I was just hot for him!

For me, sex is just one of ways I learn more about someone I like and myself. Like, lust, and respect, are my prerequisites for sex along with no "this is a really bad idea" thoughts. I try to be open and honest in all ways with a woman I fancy - mind, body, and soul. So, I don't have any specific boundries, just what feels right. I probably wouldn't ask for anal sex on a first date, but may agree after enough foreplay if asked.

A complaint about men I can't relate to is unwillingness to open up. A partner like that is a deal breaker for me and I lose interest in friendship let alone sex with a woman if she doesn't trust me.

Jing · September 17th, 2005 12:15 AM

well....

i dont mean to generalise but I think that most girls.... they prefer love or sex with familiarity but to guys its juz sex sex sex.

For me, I'd prefer to come home after a long day to find someone waiting for me, cuddle up watch a movie and enjoy each other's company ( together with pets ) instead of juz shagging the night away.... but thats me.

I just had a really big 'argument' with my bf about this topic, because he wants sex all the time and I want love and not just some sexual act..... but thats juz me!

Cheers
Jing

vadek28 · September 17th, 2005 02:21 AM

I never was a typical bloke. For me, cuddles are very important - and I always found kisses to be much more intimate than sex, assuming that you are in love with person you're kissing. Sex is a physical affirmation of love - I'd find it hard to make love (have sex) with someone I feel no emotional attachment to. But that's just me - or rather was me when I had a love life a long time ago.

catt · September 20th, 2005 10:28 AM

MrPicMe wrote:

IT IS LIFES BREATH...
Sex is a tangeble outreach of the feelings and emotions I have for the one I love...

You're making me consider another Haiku Challenge... *grins*

catt · September 20th, 2005 10:29 AM

zille wrote:

Hehehe -- well, not always happy, sweet Catt -- I have not figured out how to remove all obstacles or problems from my life, yet!
All the of the lessons I've learned that I use to make my life as full of love and sex as it is now, all came out of lots of drama and suffering. It's not easy to be poly in this society, and it's very much a "build your own model of a relationship" sort of thing. And I don't have all the kinks worked out yet ... uh, wait, I want the kinks, I mean those nasty little problems that come up just when you think everything is just grand.
And I stole all the ideas from Heinlein anyway (and the forum lads and I were discussing in another post!) If you want to have relationships like that, he is the best guide you could read!

Heinlein is now on my to-read list Ms...

catt · September 20th, 2005 10:29 AM

nihilonx wrote:

In the meantime, my comments on sex and love...I enjoy both.

And it really is that simple. *S*

catt · September 20th, 2005 10:33 AM

liz wrote:

I'm struggling to come to terms with the fact that something that was once true for me, but now is unthinkable, is still perfectly fine for other people...I don't begrudge those who look at sex as simply a fun way of spending an evening with someone (no different than going to the movies!) and sometimes I'm even a smidgen jealous of those people.

I guess it's just how we all evolve - differently. A friend who had been with the same guy since she was 16 - for 7 years of her life - has now left the relationship and is finally able to experiment and "sample the wares" (her words, not mine). And she couldn't be happier.

catt · September 20th, 2005 10:38 AM

Jing wrote:

For me, I'd prefer to come home after a long day to find someone waiting for me, cuddle up watch a movie and enjoy each other's company ( together with pets ) instead of juz shagging the night away.... but thats me.

I know what you mean, Jing, as I'm typically the same. But sex can still be entertwined with love, and for your guy, that's his way of expressing it. The best situation is a combination of sex, love, and intimacy, and this is dependant (I believe) on trust and how in sync you are with your partner.

catt · September 20th, 2005 10:40 AM

vadek28 wrote:

I never was a typical bloke...

I think there's more like you out there than Jing (and many others) might suspect...

jdudley76 · September 20th, 2005 11:28 AM

I used to be exactly how you describe yourself Catt. When I would get into a relationship, it would be the world to me. And then when it would end, I would withdrawl from the world and be anti-social few a few months, sometimes years. But recently that's changed for me. I've become much more like Zille describes herself. I think, for me at least, the difference is self-love. I used to think (without realizing it) that I needed someone else to make me a complete person. Once I learned to really love myself, and saw that I didn't need anyone else to complete me, I stopped feeling this need for monogamistic ownership in my relationships.

I still wouldn't sleep with someone that I didn't feel some sort of love for, but it could be just one time, and I wouldn't feel that I had lost anything afterward. What means something to me is the connection you have with someone you're close to, not whether they have a closer connection to anyone else. The love a person has for someone else is independent and unrelated to the love they have for you.

Everyone is different though. What's important is to find what works for you, regardless of what everyone else does.

catt · September 20th, 2005 03:08 PM

jdudley76 wrote:

I used to be exactly how you describe yourself Catt. When I would get into a relationship, it would be the world to me. And then when it would end, I would withdrawl from the world and be anti-social few a few months, sometimes years. But recently that's changed for me. I've become much more like Zille describes herself. I think, for me at least, the difference is self-love. I used to think (without realizing it) that I needed someone else to make me a complete person. Once I learned to really love myself, and saw that I didn't need anyone else to complete me, I stopped feeling this need for monogamistic ownership in my relationships.
I still wouldn't sleep with someone that I didn't feel some sort of love for, but it could be just one time, and I wouldn't feel that I had lost anything afterward. What means something to me is the connection you have with someone you're close to, not whether they have a closer connection to anyone else. The love a person has for someone else is independent and unrelated to the love they have for you.
Everyone is different though. What's important is to find what works for you, regardless of what everyone else does.

I think, for me at least, the difference is self-love. I used to think (without realizing it) that I needed someone else to make me a complete person. Once I learned to really love myself, and saw that I didn't need anyone else to complete me, I stopped feeling this need for monogamistic ownership in my relationships.

This could very likely be a part of it, you're right (although I do believe that I am very concious of aligning moreso with the Wandering Whole philosophy rather than the Wandering Half...) Esteem fluctuates, but is also very relevant to the equation.

Everyone is different though. What's important is to find what works for you, regardless of what everyone else does.

Exactly!

nihilonx · September 21st, 2005 12:10 PM

catt wrote:

And it really is that simple. *S*

I've had my share of complexities in life, and I find simplicity far more appealing now.

It is an interesting question that you pose here regarding sex and love. The ancient greeks spoke of four major "types" of love -- agape (spiritual), storge (familial), philia (friendship), and eros (erotic). I would guess that each kind is particular to whomever you are dealing with and that -- theoretically speaking -- the ideal is sharing all four of these simultaneously with one specific person.

Or, conversely, maybe the ideal is sharing this with everyone else as much as possible.

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Love And Sex, Sex And Love

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