#1 January 8th, 2005 07:20 AM

liz

Member

Blaze and Elektra

Ok, I just have to post this message, because I seem to be the only one who finds the suggestions for a duet or video of the two sisters together entirely creepy.

I understand the general idea behind it, I think - two beautiful women are better than one, eh? And, sure, the fact that they are identical is intriguing.  But I don't understand why it would be sexy or erotic to watch someone getting naked with their sibling.

I'm not coming at this from a prudish point of view at all - I think sex and sexuality is anything but shameful, and we should feel like we can share thoughts, feelings, and experiences with those close to us.  But there is a huge difference between being open and sharing, and getting naked together!

I don't think that anyone would suggest a woman do a nude photo shoot with her father, or her brother, or (hopefully) even her mother, so I don't see why it's okay to suggest she do so with her sister.

I think it's easy for us to sort of - I don't know - maybe de-personalize the women on this site, so you can think simply about getting to check out two lovely, identical, naked ladies *at the same time!!* without thinking about the fact that, hello!, they are related!  Boundaries, people, boundaries.

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"If I can't dance, I don't want to be part of your revolution."
            -Emma Goldman

mcam2000

Member

Re: Blaze and Elektra

i'm just for spontaneous stuff. nothing must be asked. i just can turn on dreams and fantasies but i'll never ask for something.

Head

Administrator

Re: Blaze and Elektra

I don't think that anyone would suggest a woman do a nude photo shoot with her father, or her brother, or (hopefully) even her mother, so I don't see why it's okay to suggest she do so with her sister.

I doubt many girls would get naked with their brother or father in any circumstance, eg skinny dipping or sharing a bathroom.  And probably not many with their mother.  We have one pair of twins on the site (one up, the other soon) who have never seen each other naked.  But Blaze and Electra told us they're always naked around each other, and asked if they could do a shoot together, so we happily accepted it.

fatquack

Member

Re: Blaze and Elektra

I doubt many girls would get naked with their brother or father in any circumstance, eg skinny dipping or sharing a bathroom.  And probably not many with their mother.  We have one pair of twins on the site (one up, the other soon) who have never seen each other naked.  But Blaze and Electra told us they're always naked around each other, and asked if they could do a shoot together, so we happily accepted it.

Actually, in many parts of the world it is very normal to take a bath or a sauna together with your family. On the other hand there are parts of the world where you are not even supposed to look at your own naked body...

liz

Member

Re: Blaze and Elektra

Actually, in many parts of the world it is very normal to take a bath or a sauna together with your family. On the other hand there are parts of the world where you are not even supposed to look at your own naked body...

The thing is, unlike a bath or a sauna, ISM is a distinctly sexual context (no matter whether one thinks of it as art or porn or what have you), and that's where my pondering lies.
Being naked *around* each other is a whole lot different than being naked *with* each other, if that makes any sense.
To me, the many suggestions that sisters do a shoot together (regardless of whether they want to or not) reek of that tired old het male lesbian fantasy - and to project that fantasy onto sisters, just seems...unseemly and also disrespectful.
Perhaps this isn't the case for everyone who would like to see such a shoot, and probably most wouldn't admit it, but it seems very much to me like the underlying idea is, "you have a hot li'l bod, your sister has a hot li'l bod, and I'd like to see you two gettin' it on."
Maybe some siblings can acomplish a nude shoot together without feeling like they've crossed any of their personal boundaries, but, again, my whole...I don't want to say problem, but I guess it's the best word here...my whole problem lies with the clearly sexual context of it.

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"If I can't dance, I don't want to be part of your revolution."
            -Emma Goldman

Belgareth

Member

Re: Blaze and Elektra

The thing is, unlike a bath or a sauna, ISM is a distinctly sexual context (no matter whether one thinks of it as art or porn or what have you), and that's where my pondering lies.
Being naked *around* each other is a whole lot different than being naked *with* each other, if that makes any sense.
To me, the many suggestions that sisters do a shoot together (regardless of whether they want to or not) reek of that tired old het male lesbian fantasy - and to project that fantasy onto sisters, just seems...unseemly and also disrespectful.
Perhaps this isn't the case for everyone who would like to see such a shoot, and probably most wouldn't admit it, but it seems very much to me like the underlying idea is, "you have a hot li'l bod, your sister has a hot li'l bod, and I'd like to see you two gettin' it on."
Maybe some siblings can acomplish a nude shoot together without feeling like they've crossed any of their personal boundaries, but, again, my whole...I don't want to say problem, but I guess it's the best word here...my whole problem lies with the clearly sexual context of it.

Liz, I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiments, as I also find the concept of siblings involving themselves in a sexual context total weird. However, it seems that there are many who do not. I know of sisters who work together as "escorts" and are proud to announce that fact to all and sundry; not that I have had personal experience of their work, singly or together. The very idea has put me off even wishing to communicate with them, as I have such great difficulty in coming to term with it. Even more exteme, I used to know a brother and sister who regularly "got off" with each other and that was something which completely freaked me out!!

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[color="Red"]require "help.pl";[/color]

ron831

Member

Re: Blaze and Elektra

Being naked *around* each other is a whole lot different than being naked *with* each other, if that makes any sense.
To me, the many suggestions that sisters do a shoot together (regardless of whether they want to or not) reek of that tired old het male lesbian fantasy - and to project that fantasy onto sisters, just seems...unseemly and also disrespectful.

I feel that two beautiful sisters, who have already posted beautiful folios here..can indeed do a shoot together..perhaps a bedroom setting in the scheme of maybe getting ready for the day...drying off after a shower, drying their hair...picking out clothes to wear..it could be in good taste with no "touching", just two sisters doing probably what two sisters do each morning all over the planet.  We should not judge others on what they see on ISM.  Personally, I don't find it a porn site...just lovely ladies sharing what they chose.

Head

Administrator

Re: Blaze and Elektra

The thing is, unlike a bath or a sauna, ISM is a distinctly sexual context (no matter whether one thinks of it as art or porn or what have you), and that's where my pondering lies.

Whatever ISM is, shouldn't the folio be taken on it's own merits?  If there are no sexual overtones in the images, what is it more than two siblings posing together, the nudity being incidental?

liz

Member

Re: Blaze and Elektra

Whatever ISM is, shouldn't the folio be taken on it's own merits?  If there are no sexual overtones in the images, what is it more than two siblings posing together, the nudity being incidental?

My comments were not intended to be pointed toward a particular folio, nor to Blaze & Elektra specifically, they were simply the catalyst for my questioning here.  I was making no judgement on them for choosing to do a folio together, but more looking at the motives behind and appropriateness or respectfulness of salivating over two sisters "together" and clamoring for them to deliver.  Again, if they can do a nude photo shoot together, without it raising any issues for them personally, that's for them to decide.

But for the record, nudity is never incidental!

---

"If I can't dance, I don't want to be part of your revolution."
            -Emma Goldman

Gimme_Danger

Member

Re: Blaze and Elektra

But for the record, nudity is never incidental!

and nudity is not always sexual. The sexual mindset is something placed on us over the years primarily by organised religion in order to engender guilt and therefore apply power.

I agree that a porn shoot with twins would be wrong and incestuous but what we  are seeing on this site is more 'matter of fact'

voyeur2

Member

Re: Blaze and Elektra

and nudity is not always sexual. The sexual mindset is something placed on us over the years primarily by organised religion in order to engender guilt and therefore apply power.

I agree that a porn shoot with twins would be wrong and incestuous but what we  are seeing on this site is more 'matter of fact'

I have to agree that nudity is not necessarily erotic or pornographic.

There are excellent reasons from a genetic point of view to discourage incest, not only religion and power tripping.

There have been folios on this site that are erotic, intended to be so, and others much more on the self expression end of the scale and not erotic, but artistic, others parodies of eroticism.

Twins are a special case in that some sets are very close.  They finish each other's sentences, have the same dress sense and so forth.  It is obvious in a case like that, twins might both be keen on the self examination and adventure of doing nude photography.

I think we owe the twins involved the right to put forth their vision.  At that point we can judge if it goes too close to the incest line, the wierd relationship line or whatever.

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Have I ever lied to you before?

lucille

Member

Re: Blaze and Elektra

taboo notions such as incest always stir debate tinged with emotion,  understandably when the statistics regarding early pre-sexual experimentation between siblings demonstrates it is pretty common. 

i don't get the whoopla about it all, i don't feel like i should hide my body from my brothers or other people for that matter.  Altho i may be a little shy around grandma!  we go swimming naked in the river and its got nothing to do with desire... (me and bro, not gma!) and everything to do with mother nature (water, sun, trees and bodies)

what is concealed, taboo or unacceptable within a culture often becomes a fetish think necks in Japanese culture (traditionally geishas kimono is cut wider so that you can see the line of their neck from behind), ankles, hair etc in Muslim culture

In Western culture it is seen as unacceptable to be naked with your siblings as it is percieved that nakedness is a step away from incest.  Which of course is ludicrous.  There is a huge difference between being naked with someone and engaging in sexual contact and intimacy with that person. 

The same argument is used by anti- porn lobbyists, porn= degredation of women= violent crimes against women...... i.e sibling nakedness= sexual contact=incest.....

a breast can be touched, stroked or groped, big difference

twins can get together be naked and low and behold touch each other without engaging in sexual contact!  can't wait to see the set........if there is one?

theda

Member

Re: Blaze and Elektra

I agree with Lucille, although my initial reaction was "thats a bit weird", we should be reaccessing why we react like that when clearly there is nothing sexual going on between them. we need to break down social constructs. the idea that nudity= sex is one of these constructs.
mind you though, I come from a conservative and uptight family thats so formal we don't even have nicknames for each other-suffice to say my sisters and I have never and will never see each other in the nude! (Or know that I'm on this website!)

liz

Member

Re: Blaze and Elektra

I agree with Lucille, although my initial reaction was "thats a bit weird", we should be reaccessing why we react like that when clearly there is nothing sexual going on between them. we need to break down social constructs. the idea that nudity= sex is one of these constructs.
mind you though, I come from a conservative and uptight family thats so formal we don't even have nicknames for each other-suffice to say my sisters and I have never and will never see each other in the nude! (Or know that I'm on this website!)

I think that everybody is totally missing my point here - my thoughts/questions really have nothing whatsoever to do with sisters/siblings actually shooting naked photos together - it was not a judgement of them, or some puritanical "good God, how can you do such a thing!  you shouldn't see each other naked!"  or the idea that they're going to shoot pictures of them being sexual with each other.  I am looking at the numerous suggestions that they do so, and wondering at the motivations behind them.  I tried to explain that, but no one seems to be latching onto the idea that I actually wanted to discuss, so we'll just let 'er lie..

---

"If I can't dance, I don't want to be part of your revolution."
            -Emma Goldman

Head

Administrator

Re: Blaze and Elektra

I think that everybody is totally missing my point here - my thoughts/questions really have nothing whatsoever to do with sisters/siblings actually shooting naked photos together - it was not a judgement of them, or some puritanical "good God, how can you do such a thing!  you shouldn't see each other naked!"  or the idea that they're going to shoot pictures of them being sexual with each other.  I am looking at the numerous suggestions that they do so, and wondering at the motivations behind them.  I tried to explain that, but no one seems to be latching onto the idea that I actually wanted to discuss, so we'll just let 'er lie..

I think it's fascinating to see the subtle differences.  My experience has been that most twins don't even consider themselves as "looking like" their sibling.  I have twin friends and they both would rather try clothes on in the mirror than have the twin model for them, which surprises me.

Suppose you gave your twins the same name.  Technically their birth certificates would be identical (depending on which country you live in, they may or may not have 'serial numbers') so it would be impossible to execute any sort of warrant or court order separately.  Even if you could prove which twin did the crime (twins don't have the same fingerprints), you couldn't haul one arse to jail without the other, so presumably both would have to walk free. 

And that's ~my~ insomnia talking.

theda

Member

Re: Blaze and Elektra

I think it's fascinating to see the subtle differences.  My experience has been that most twins don't even consider themselves as "looking like" their sibling.  I have twin friends and they both would rather try clothes on in the mirror than have the twin model for them, which surprises me.

Suppose you gave your twins the same name.  Technically their birth certificates would be identical (depending on which country you live in, they may or may not have 'serial numbers') so it would be impossible to execute any sort of warrant or court order separately.  Even if you could prove which twin did the crime (twins don't have the same fingerprints), you couldn't haul one arse to jail without the other, so presumably both would have to walk free. 

And that's ~my~ insomnia talking.

Um.....
from the ISM grrrls, what on earth do you mean!??

Head

Administrator

Re: Blaze and Elektra

Um.....
from the ISM grrrls, what on earth do you mean!??

If it's impossible to etsablish a difference between two people on paper, how can you have separate tax file numbers? Medicare numbers?  Arrest warrants? You are, from a bureaucratic point of view, the same person living in two bodies.

samknox

Member

Re: Blaze and Elektra

I understand the general idea behind it, I think - two beautiful women are better than one, eh? And, sure, the fact that they are identical is intriguing.  But I don't understand why it would be sexy or erotic to watch someone getting naked with their sibling.

Liz,

To tell you the truth, I hadn't given this much thought until you brought it up.  Here's my take:

If two unrelated women pose together, then it's just a matter of "more is better".

What makes twins more desirable isn't that they're siblings, it's that, for all practical purposes, they have the same body.  When twins pose together it's possible to present views of one body that would be otherwise impossible.

Sam

soneil

Member

Re: Blaze and Elektra

...If two unrelated women pose together, then it's just a matter of "more is better".

What makes twins more desirable isn't that they're siblings, it's that, for all practical purposes, they have the same body.  When twins pose together it's possible to present views of one body that would be otherwise impossible....

I have to agree with Sam.

voyeur2

Member

Re: Blaze and Elektra

Liz,

To tell you the truth, I hadn't given this much thought until you brought it up.  Here's my take:

If two unrelated women pose together, then it's just a matter of "more is better".

What makes twins more desirable isn't that they're siblings, it's that, for all practical purposes, they have the same body.  When twins pose together it's possible to present views of one body that would be otherwise impossible.

Sam

I reluctantly agree with sam.  @;->

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Have I ever lied to you before?

samknox

Member

Re: Blaze and Elektra

I reluctantly agree with sam.  @;->

It's official...hell has frozen over!

;-)

theda

Member

Re: Blaze and Elektra

If it's impossible to etsablish a difference between two people on paper, how can you have separate tax file numbers? Medicare numbers?  Arrest warrants? You are, from a bureaucratic point of view, the same person living in two bodies.

do twins have identical fingerprints also? but you bring up an interesting question. have there been any cases in history where this has come up?

Head

Administrator

Re: Blaze and Elektra

do twins have identical fingerprints also? but you bring up an interesting question. have there been any cases in history where this has come up?

Their fingerprints are different, so are retinal patterns.  I haven't heard of this happening but if I ever have twins, I'll give it a shot.

theda

Member

Re: Blaze and Elektra

Their fingerprints are different, so are retinal patterns.  I haven't heard of this happening but if I ever have twins, I'll give it a shot.

Already drawn up the hit list then?
Maybe you should try octuplets. That would make things even more interesting. Or just clones. With a white suit and an army of clones to prevent smooth prosecution, you could become the biggest mafia boss in town.