#26 December 6th, 2004 11:35 AM

theda

Member

Re: transphobia sucks.

You couldn't be more wrong! YOU saying it's a "phobia" does NOT make it so. Look at the pics, okay? "She" has a clearly visible, quite thick moustache. "She" probably did these pics in an attempt to solicit adverse reaction, and start this very kind of discussion. I think the original posters point was that if we want transgender pics, we would seek out a transgender site.

thats a rather meanhearted thing to say, that someone would only do a set to create adverse reaction. you don't have to look at the pictures, you do have a choice. if you aren't a fan of certain things then you don't have to view it.  thats whats great about this website, its demonstrating diversity, exploring gender definitions and perceptions of people and their sexuality.

BillyBear

Member

Re: transphobia sucks.

thats whats great about this website, its demonstrating diversity, exploring gender definitions and perceptions of people and their sexuality.

wow. Don't know where you got that from, but, again, you, The Enlightened Ones, are always right. No one who doesn't agree with you is entitled to an opinion, so I'll just go let you wallow in it.

tsunami

Member

Re: transphobia sucks.

Erm, as a bloke with a fairly broad and, dare I say, non-judgemental point of view. I have to say that you're comments (billybear) are entirely out of place with the ethos of this site. We are lucky enough to be able to witness on a daily basis the vast, endless and joyously diverse universe that is womanhood. The fantastic thing about ISM is that it isn't scared to let the women (the subjects so to speak), in all their natural, unedited diversity, speak for themselves. So far, this forum has been nothing but encouraging with every folio being positively commented on, regardless. Different strokes for different folks me old son, if you don't like that, and can't help leaving negative comments then maybe you should take your membership elsewhere....coz this ain't the site for you. Vive le difference and bugger off to negative, narrow views...

My case is rested.

Mr McTsunami

wow. Don't know where you got that from, but, again, you, The Enlightened Ones, are always right. No one who doesn't agree with you is entitled to an opinion, so I'll just go let you wallow in it.

BillyBear

Member

Re: transphobia sucks.

My POINT is that others besides yourself are, and should be, entitled to their opinion without you passing judgement on them. See, I didn't make the original post in question, but, someone didn't like transsexuals. So freakin' what?!?

Merricat

Member

Re: transphobia sucks.

My POINT is that others besides yourself are, and should be, entitled to their opinion without you passing judgement on them. See, I didn't make the original post in question, but, someone didn't like transsexuals. So freakin' what?!?

It becomes a big deal when people feel the need to be rude about it. There have been girls on ISM and on other sites I'm on that I'm not into or that I even found unattractive, but there's no reason for me to say that publicly. If you don't have anything nice to say, or you don't have constructive criticism, then people should use tact and keep their mouths shut. I really, really don't see what's so hard about that. It's called being empathetic and polite.

BillyBear

Member

Re: transphobia sucks.

It becomes a big deal when people feel the need to be rude about it. There have been girls on ISM and on other sites I'm on that I'm not into or that I even found unattractive, but there's no reason for me to say that publicly. If you don't have anything nice to say, or you don't have constructive criticism, then people should use tact and keep their mouths shut. I really, really don't see what's so hard about that. It's called being empathetic and polite.

Well, you're still missing my point. My point is that those who claim to be so tolerant can't accept that someone else might have a different opinion from theirs, but, instead, try to ram their perception of what is "normal" down eveyone's throat.

Merricat

Member

Re: transphobia sucks.

Well, you're still missing my point. My point is that those who claim to be so tolerant can't accept that someone else might have a different opinion from theirs, but, instead, try to ram their perception of what is "normal" down eveyone's throat.

I don't think it's an issue of tolarance of different opinions. It's an issue of tolerance of rudeness.

theda

Member

Re: transphobia sucks.

My POINT is that others besides yourself are, and should be, entitled to their opinion without you passing judgement on them. See, I didn't make the original post in question, but, someone didn't like transsexuals. So freakin' what?!?

but this is a messegeboard...haven't you looked at other sites boards? (www.kittyradio.com is a facinating glimpse into the world of argumentative and interesting pop cultural forums!). you give your opinion and i'm allowed to "pass judgement" because its a forum right? just because your outnumbered in your opinions doesn'tmean your being censored. so basically, what i'm saying is....i'm allowed to pass judgement on YOU passing judegment upon others. you make a statement then you don't like what others have to say..thats a risk you take when you post in a forum. so freakin what indeed.

Belgareth

Member

Re: transphobia sucks.

but this is a messegeboard...haven't you looked at other sites boards? (www.kittyradio.com is a facinating glimpse into the world of argumentative and interesting pop cultural forums!). you give your opinion and i'm allowed to "pass judgement" because its a forum right? just because your outnumbered in your opinions doesn'tmean your being censored. so basically, what i'm saying is....i'm allowed to pass judgement on YOU passing judegment upon others. you make a statement then you don't like what others have to say..thats a risk you take when you post in a forum. so freakin what indeed.

This post is the nearest thing to a positive reply I have seen in this thread for quite a while. I agree with you, in that if you invoke the right of free speak, then that is exactly what you should expect..
As an Elder Statesman once said "You can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time but you can't please all of the people all of the time.

Because one opinion outnumbers another it doesn't necessarily make it right or wrong; just a majority :-)

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voyeur2

Member

Re: transphobia sucks.

First I would like to thank Liz for her many well thought responses.
I would like to add something that has not yet been addressed.  The accusation was made and everyone assumed it was true.  So I looked at the folios in question and saw - on other pics in the sets- definite pussy.  Did not at all look unreal.  Also from my perspective of looking at women, both folios looked just like women to me, and I did not see the 'adam's apple' area as anything out of the range for women.
But another thing on comments in general.  I am an addict, I look at them all, and of course there are times I think the folio is callow, shallow, not good art.  But I remember it is only my perspective on this, others are allowed to think etherwise.  Free speech is only a precurser to freedom to think.
The young women who submit these folios are being very brave.  It is extremely threatening to expose your secret bits in public, to expose your own sense of what is forbidden, what is beautiful, a bit of the real you to the critical evaluation of the world.  That is what it is to be any sort of real artist.
I applaud theirr courage, the commitment to freedom of thought and expression no matter what.
I comment on the ones I fine most pleasing to me, hoping to stimulate more of that.
After all, people and puppies repeat rewarding experience.
I for one would like to see a broader range of age and conventional beauty quotient/body type on this site.

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vito3dita

Member

Re: transphobia sucks.

It's fucking simple: if you don't like something just don't look at it.

theda

Member

Re: transphobia sucks.

It's fucking simple: if you don't like something just don't look at it.

exactly

doggie

Member

Re: transphobia sucks.

It's fucking simple: if you don't like something just don't look at it.

I am interested to see a wide variety of people here.

I don't know if it's happened, but I would be irritated if I had been decieved by someone's sexuality.

Angelene

Member

Re: transphobia sucks.

I am interested to see a wide variety of people here.

I don't know if it's happened, but I would be irritated if I had been decieved by someone's sexuality.

sexuality, gender/gender presentation and biological sex are three very different things.  Are you referring to sexuality such as "gay straight bi queer, etc." and if so, how and why would you be deceived and angry?

doggie

Member

Re: transphobia sucks.

sexuality, gender/gender presentation and biological sex are three very different things.  Are you referring to sexuality such as "gay straight bi queer, etc." and if so, how and why would you be deceived and angry?

Yeah, I should have said gender, not sexuality.

For example, if a model that was male pretended to be female.

Angelene

Member

Re: transphobia sucks.

Yeah, I should have said gender, not sexuality.

For example, if a model that was male pretended to be female.

Okay, again, contradiction.  "male" and "female" are sex-indicators, not gender adjectives.  Therefore, if you are talking about gender, nobody can "pretend" to be one or the other because gender is a social construct that we're all making up as we go along anyway.  So this theorethical person would be no more "pretending" to be a gender than we all are.  However, if you are talking about sex, then, as Head has already pointed out, you have to submit a scan of your legal ID in order to be on ISM (for legal purposes), and I don't know very many places that don't require sex to be stamped somewhere onto your ID.  So, unless Head is at the forefront of some (somehow nefarious?) grand scheme to covertly expose us all to transexual models... I don't think you have much to worry about in that respect.