#26 June 11th, 2005 08:53 PM

Belgareth

Member

Re: Who are you

And as far as taking the heat, see my post on another thread.  The women posting to this site are willing to take the heat for their personal choice of risking 'exposure'.  The cool bit aint the tit, it's the face.  There is the person daring anyone to come up and comment to them - even people who know them, even - heaven forbid - if they become famous in a very distant and repressive future.  I can see the tabloid headlines.  SEE WHAZZERNAME NUDE!!!
Takes real balls to do that.  My hat's off.

There may well be a risk of "heat" on the outside, from friends, neighbours and family but it is not right that the contributors should be exposed to the same thing within ISM.

I am guessing that in the majority of cases (I can think of a few exceptions) the girl's decisions to shoot themselves has not been without some degree of trepidation and we are the ones exposed to the results of them baring all for the camera. It doesn't take a brain the size of a planet to realise that some of the contributors remain quite demure throughout their entire shoot and their confidence is ultimately boosted by our comments, while others clearly gain confidence as their shoot progresses. What right have we to destroy those newly gained confidences by passing slanderous judgement on their efforts?

Statistically, the members of ISM seem to exhibit an overall preference of folio contributor, if the hit list is used as the yardstick. However, in general, within this forum there doesn't appear to be any indication of this preference but do we form a statistically viable sample or are we just another self-selecting group with widely differing opinions on body types but very similar opinions on behaviour and decorum?

Mmmmm - having just made that statement, I will have to go away and thing about it's implications. It could be a moebius strip syndrome .............

---

[color="Red"]require "help.pl";[/color]

Head

Member

Re: Who are you

HEAD,
Let's face it HEAD, the substandard "beaver-shoot" material that you allow up here, all too often, is just a waste of our time and my money. If all I wanted to see was a bunch of hack photos of a self made "beaver shoot", I would have picked up a cheap bottom of the barrel copy of mainstream porn.

I agree, if that's all you wanted to see, you wouldn't be here.  You are here, presumably, because most of our folios aren't "beaver shoots".  Apart from setting a minimum of "full frontal nudity" we don't tell the contributors what to submit and so the diversity on the site reflects the motives of the contributors, and if the mix isn't to your liking we can't apologise for that. 

Now you know I never said ISM had to be a beauty contest; however, as a photographer, I am naturally programed to bring out the "beauty" in a subject and add what i think maybe artistic about a subject. I have seen many pretty subjects with much more potential as a"model"/"artist" with little guidance attempt to make an artistic shoot of themselves. As you might have noticed, I have attempted to give possitive suggestions that would make, in my opinion, a better shoot..

In YOUR opinion, you got that part right - but here you aren't the photographer, you're the audience. 

...To show you I will put my money were my mouth is, at any time, feel free to debit my credit card for the difference of a downgrade to the month to month status, and I will take a hike.

No need ot be a martyr, nobody's asking you to leave the site, just have a little respeck.

Jing

Member

Re: Who are you

i did it for the fun of it and now i find that im really interested in photoshoots and stuff....
as for getting fired and stuff...... well you have to be a member to view the pics.... and if you are a member, then i think firing employees base on these photographs shows that you are UNFAIR and MEAN.... afterall YOU ( the boss ) gets pleasure from viewing these stuff... so .........

if u view it urself... dun ostracise ppl for shooting it for u to view.

voyeur2

Member

Re: Who are you

HEAD,

What drew me into ISM was the ARTISTIC side of shooting oneself, and the celebration of the human form.(As seen in the examples on the home page designed to draw you in before you sign up)
I don't feel, however, throwing ones legs open to a bunch of onlookers deems artistic credence. Let's face it HEAD, the substandard "beaver-shoot" material that you allow up here, all too often, is just a waste of our time and my money. If all I wanted to see was a bunch of hack photos of a self made "beaver shoot", I would have picked up a cheap bottom of the barrel copy of mainstream porn.

as a photographer, I am naturally programed to bring out the "beauty" in a subject and add what i think maybe artistic about a subject.

I have attempted to give possitive suggestions that would make, in my opinion, a better shoot.

Art is in the eye of the beholder.  And I signed up because I thought the stuff Head gave as a 'come on' was enough for a trial. 

As I said in a way previous post I have a PHD in consumer buying. (Pretty Hard to Disappoint).   So I opted for a 3 month renewable top o the line access.  Been here a year, very satisfied.

Your decision to splash out a big whack of cash for a life membership was not all that wise.  Points to lack of impulse control.  I used to have that kind of grandiose self indulgence when I was younger and under the influence of self administered chemical lifestyle enhancement.  The buyers remorse you express tries to shift the blame to Head for following standard marketing practise which you as a photographer should have been 'naturally programmed' to know all about.

It must be refreshing to the young women posting their fragile secret selves here to have their efforts likened to "a bunch of hack photos of a self made 'beaver shoot'."  and then further liken it to a "cheap bottom of the barrel copy of mainstream porn." 

They must be slavering for your "positive suggestions that would make  . . . a better shoot."

You feel that  ' as a photographer I am naturally programmed to bring out the 'beauty' in a subject, what I think may be artistic about a subject."

As a photographer - based on these quotes, I think you are at most a camera mechanic.  You have no idea what the 'art' in photographing beautiful women is.  It is NOT the form as SCSIgirl knows well.  It is the human dimension in context with the situation that gives rise to beauty, the grace under stressful moments, the courage of being naked and nude to a world that generally forbids it. 

Yes some of the photos are hack quality.  It is to be expected - after all the shooters are not even calling themselves photographers. 

Nor by the way does the site call them that. 

And the conceit that one can be naturally programmed to some line of work is an absurdity.  People choose their work, and sometimes choose wrong.  But it remains choice, not programming, - and may I mention the number of hack programs out in the IT world. 

Programmed is a bad attribute to apply to yourself; particularly as programming excludes choice, thought, critical judgement, the art process itself.  Every programmed output should be predictable - the very antithesis of art, which should astonish with newness, creativity, fresh insight, beauty even.

So to hold them up to your standards for beautiful photography is an absurdity, and your lack of ability to see the real beauty is astonishing.

I think your whole reason for being here is an ego trip.

As I said before - small head  huge ego.  Something's gotta blow.  Someone ought to apologise and blow too.

And in case you can't figger this out, this is a flame.  My last one. 

I believe you are a self congratulating under educated fool, incapable of impulse control, introspection, or even ordinary civility.  Not really worthy of anybody's time.

---

Have I ever lied to you before?

liandra_dahl

Member

Re: Who are you

I just want to aplaud Head and Voyeur2 for there laudable responses to MrPicMe. Nobody is claiming that everything that comes form this site is 'ART' or that the best photographed nudes in the world are to be found here, but the sites philosophy is brilliant, and the site is contributor friendly, and that is why many girls that would otherwise eschew this line of exploring themselves, feel happy and even proud to be a part of it. I think the integrity shown by head in protecting the contributors from some of ISM's paying customers, is praise worthy, and I'm all the more a fan of Head's than ever for seeing him step up and totally cream the opposition in this debate.

MrPicMe

Member

Re: Who are you

As I said in a way previous post I have a PHD in consumer buying. (Pretty Hard to Disappoint).   So I opted for a 3 month renewable top o the line access.  Been here a year, very satisfied.

Okay, I'm with you so far... but in the next sentence you write:

Your decision to splash out a big whack of cash for a life membership was not all that wise. Points to lack of impulse control.

Hmmm, are you saying it is or isn't a wise choice to fund the art you passionately believe in? If your passions for this art run so deep, why the hesitation? Your powerful mind should be able to calculate and deduce the loss of money over time by not going with a lifetime subscription when compared to a 3 month. Or is YOUR presence here just an impulse or a whim? I guess that reveals you again as the hypocrite that you are.

MrPicMe

Member

Re: Who are you

They must be slavering for your "positive suggestions that would make  . . . a better shoot."

???

I wish I could respond to this, but I don't know what "slavering" means...

MrPicMe

Member

Re: Who are you

As a photographer - based on these quotes, I think you are at most a camera mechanic.  You have no idea what the 'art' in photographing beautiful women is.

...Then I guess you should review some of my earlier posts where I did give examples of my work. I have yet to see you produce anything but insults.? Is tagging me with insults the best your great mind can contribute? In light of the fact that the worst I have ever called you or any fellow member here is hypocritical.

...With regards to the “Hairy ass” comment towards a recent set that was up, I was doing nothing more than stating my personal preference to “that area”. How can I have insulted the artist if it is her personal preference is not to shave an area of her body? For example, from time to time, I grow the hair on my face out, and my partner tells I that she doesn’t care for it. To quote her; “Why cultivate on your face what grows wild around your ass hole.” I laugh and agree, and eventually shave it off. …No offense taken.

MrPicMe

Member

Re: Who are you

And the conceit that one can be naturally programmed to some line of work is an absurdity.

Interesting sping on my quote. If you were actually trying to understand what I was writing, it would have sounded more like this... After learning the craft of photography I naturally am programed to make things look the best they can be.

MrPicMe

Member

Re: Who are you

As I said before - small head  huge ego.

By far you have surpassed anyone as the most pompass megalomaniac I've ever has the displeasure of rubbing elbows with. ) When you say someone has an over inflated ego, it’s a bad idea to lay fodder comprised of self-proclaimed brainpower and “wisdom” at the very person you accuse!

MrPicMe

Member

Re: Who are you

And in case you can't figger this out, this is a flame.  My last one.

Since all you seem to understand insults, and you've brought this on yourself, here is my flame to you:
My take on you is that you are a lonley bloated tic that is trying so hard to make yourself look good enough to 'hook' an ISM bottom feeder. I find it hard to believe you have time on your hands to respond to any post in that you clearly are stuffing your face with puffed pastries. You look like you're one Pilates class away from being the first animated weeble-wobble. Every time I see you, I can think of nothing shy of Monty Python's caricature of an over indulgent, grotesquely fat, overstuffed European. By the way, if it weren't for the English and the Americans, you wouldn't waiving your snoby big French nose around here, you would be goose-stepping(if the German army would have taken you) and you would have been squashed. Frankly, you owe your pathetic exhistance to us all!

By this post, by some I won't be seen in favorable light...

...but then again, I am not here trying to win any popularity contests.

When it comes to ISM… We’re all supposedly on the same side, are we not?
-Are we not here to see high quality (resolution), interesting and passionate self-portraits?

MrPicMe

Member

Re: Who are you

I just want to aplaud Head and Voyeur2 for there laudable responses to MrPicMe. Nobody is claiming that everything that comes form this site is 'ART' or that the best photographed nudes in the world are to be found here, but the sites philosophy is brilliant, and the site is contributor friendly, and that is why many girls that would otherwise eschew this line of exploring themselves, feel happy and even proud to be a part of it. I think the integrity shown by head in protecting the contributors from some of ISM's paying customers, is praise worthy, and I'm all the more a fan of Head's than ever for seeing him step up and totally cream the opposition in this debate.

SCSIgirl

Member

Re: Who are you

???

I wish I could respond to this, but I don't know what "slavering" means...

Like when a dog is salivating, waiting for a treat.

---

"Apple of my Eye", "bated breath", "brave new world", "caught red-handed" - all coined by Shakespeare.

voyeur2

Member

Re: Who are you

I just want to aplaud Head and Voyeur2 for there laudable responses to MrPicMe. Nobody is claiming that everything that comes form this site is 'ART' or that the best photographed nudes in the world are to be found here, but the sites philosophy is brilliant, and the site is contributor friendly, and that is why many girls that would otherwise eschew this line of exploring themselves, feel happy and even proud to be a part of it. I think the integrity shown by head in protecting the contributors from some of ISM's paying customers, is praise worthy, and I'm all the more a fan of Head's than ever for seeing him step up and totally cream the opposition in this debate.

Thanks for the boost Liandra.  I felt someone other than Head should respond at length.  Sort of from the subscriber side. 

I am not a photographer, though I have taken art classes (Sculpture and drawing) as well as a basic course on B&W photography and darkroom procedures.  I have a few clues on composition, shooting and so forth.  Digital cameras are in some respects harder to use because they are so slow.  Its hard to get the candid split second with a long reaction time, and harder to avoid camera shake making blurry images.

The things I like as well as the sexiness of yours and Zille's folios is the more modestly presented ones.

A lot of shyness to overcome, little entirely exposed genitles.  It shows to me an achievement in overcoming a natural and social modesty for the principles this site stands for.  I look for that combination of determination, modesty being challenged, fear, embarassment being blown away, and emotional release in their folios  That is why I celebrate it.

I am cash crunched right now so I will take a couple months off, but I'll be back.

---

Have I ever lied to you before?

MrPicMe

Member

Re: Who are you

I just want to aplaud Head and Voyeur2 for there laudable responses to MrPicMe. Nobody is claiming that everything that comes form this site is 'ART' or that the best photographed nudes in the world are to be found here, but the sites philosophy is brilliant, and the site is contributor friendly, and that is why many girls that would otherwise eschew this line of exploring themselves, feel happy and even proud to be a part of it. I think the integrity shown by head in protecting the contributors from some of ISM's paying customers, is praise worthy, and I'm all the more a fan of Head's than ever for seeing him step up and totally cream the opposition in this debate.

I agree with you, in that Head and the rest of the crew have started something significant, but I differ with you on the notion that everything doesn't have to be artistic and well thought out. Too often I see a lot of filler and not much killer. My plea to you who are in charge here is to give the artists a little more guidance and education so that their dream, your dream(Head), and our dream can come to fruition. Being a photographer, I empathize with the arduous task of making successful art from using the human form as the subject. However, you have over half the battle won! YOU ALREADY HAVE THE MODELS/ARTISTS! Just teach them more about lighting, and other subtleties associated with presentable photography! Don't get me wrong though, I have some redeming photography that keeps my interest. I applaude those that have succeded!!! I would personally rather see one or two of those per week than a plethora of mediocre to bad.

...ISM, if you can't deliver on your promise to deliver a more artistic commodity, then downgrade my membership for reimbursement.

...Or is your focus more fiscal than artistic?

MrPicMe

Member

Re: Who are you

I am cash crunched right now so I will take a couple months off, but I'll be back.

Now it's clear why you didn't opt for the full lifetime subscription.

...and you had the nerve to suggest that I am financially irrresponsible? I live WELL within my means. It appears at your age you still can't! All that education and the letters at the end of your name didn't amount to too much did it? While your earning up enough bagging groceries to make the small amount of money to come back, we'll all be here...

voyeur2

Member

Re: Who are you

Since all you seem to understand insults, and you've brought this on yourself, here is my flame to you:
My take on you is that you are a lonley bloated tic that is trying so hard to make yourself look good enough to 'hook' an ISM bottom feeder. I find it hard to believe you have time on your hands to respond to any post in that you clearly are stuffing your face with puffed pastries. You look like you're one Pilates class away from being the first animated weeble-wobble. Every time I see you, I can think of nothing shy of Monty Python's caricature of an over indulgent, grotesquely fat, overstuffed European. By the way, if it weren't for the English and the Americans, you wouldn't waiving your snoby big French nose around here, you would be goose-stepping(if the German army would have taken you) and you would have been squashed. Frankly, you owe your pathetic exhistance to us all!

By this post, by some I won't be seen in favorable light...

...but then again, I am not here trying to win any popularity contests.

When it comes to ISM… We’re all supposedly on the same side, are we not?
-Are we not here to see high quality (resolution), interesting and passionate self-portraits?

The above poster could at any time have asked me for personal details, but chose to make his remarks up.  This is a public forum and his intent was to ridicule me in front of others and to accuse me of trying to lure some young woman for unknown purposes, but in the context - presumably bad or immoral.

So if ther are lawyers out there interested in a little activity legal wise, feel free.  Just PM me with your details and we will get right on it.  Unless the poster very soon makes a complete retraction of his remarks, and undertakes to never post to this forum again.

A few verifiable facts to base the suit upon:

I was born in Canada.  I have dual citizenship because my mother was Irish.  Thus I am either Irish, Canadian or both.  French is a language I learned in school.  I am in France because I like the weather better than Ireland or Canada.

The last time the US invaded Canada they were beaten back.

I am 7KG (15 pounds over my competition weight when I was a swimmer on the college waterpolo and swim team.  (IM, Butterfly, long distance)  I made the Olympic trials in 1959 but not the 1960 team.

I was born during WWll.

My father was in the RCAF from the beginning of WWll.  He was a doctor and did research on night fighter cockpit design and vision in low light., his brother was in the army in Normandy, my uncles were army (tanks in Normandy) and navy (north atlantic ASW.)

Most Americans I have met are pleasant outgoing warm generous people.  Sadly there are others less admirable.

---

Have I ever lied to you before?

MrPicMe

Member

Re: Who are you

The above poster could at any time have asked me for personal details, but chose to make his remarks up.  This is a public forum and his intent was to ridicule me in front of others and to accuse me of trying to lure some young woman for unknown purposes, but in the context - presumably bad or immoral.

So if ther are lawyers out there interested in a little activity legal wise, feel free.  Just PM me with your details and we will get right on it.  Unless the poster very soon makes a complete retraction of his remarks, and undertakes to never post to this forum again.

A few verifiable facts to base the suit upon:

I was born in Canada.  I have dual citizenship because my mother was Irish.  Thus I am either Irish, Canadian or both.  French is a language I learned in school.  I am in France because I like the weather better than Ireland or Canada.

The last time the US invaded Canada they were beaten back.

I am 7KG (15 pounds over my competition weight when I was a swimmer on the college waterpolo and swim team.  (IM, Butterfly, long distance)  I made the Olympic trials in 1959 but not the 1960 team.

I was born during WWll.

My father was in the RCAF from the beginning of WWll.  He was a doctor and did research on night fighter cockpit design and vision in low light., his brother was in the army in Normandy, my uncles were army (tanks in Normandy) and navy (north atlantic ASW.)

Most Americans I have met are pleasant outgoing warm generous people.  Sadly there are others less admirable.

BYE!

Torstar

Member

Re: Who are you

Hello Zille and my compliments for your amazing photographs, by the way (composition and colour are amazing). It strikes me that most contributors really know how to handle a camera.

I realise the difference between naturists and the people on ISM, of course. Although I think many naturists are a little hypocrital about the non-sexuality part of naturism, to be honest. There is at least a sensuous quality to naturism and the louder naturists yell there's not, the more convinced I get there is. Very much.

But what I meant is that maybe naturists would more easily photograph themselves like on ISM. Because this seems to be out body-acceptance for a large part too. I don't know if many female visitors frequent this site but they should, because it's refreshing to see people not being bothered by -maybe even being proud of- the size of their labia, the amount of pubic hair, their potbellies and so on. It's great, and such self confidence is also absolutely sexy.

And this is where I think ISM touches on naturist themes as well. But obviously you are way ahead of naturists, having gotten rid of all the imposed inhibitions and the hypocrisy regarding nudity and sexuality.

I salute you for it.

As was mentioned in this thread, the louder naturists shout, the harder time I have believing them.  I used to frequent Vancouver's nude beach and like most other people would become totally unaware that I was even naked.  Once in a while however I would notice a couple of women looking at me in such a way that I knew they were talking about me.  At that point I would be very concience of my nakedness and have to admit it was always very titilating. Suffice to say naturism has it's eros no matter what the naturists claim. I salute the women on ISM who not only show their bodys but show some very intimate detail about their sexuality as well.

---

And the third beast came forth from the ground

Head

Member

Re: Who are you

...ISM, if you can't deliver on your promise to deliver a more artistic commodity, then downgrade my membership for reimbursement.

...Or is your focus more fiscal than artistic?

Er, remind me again where we made this promise?

Candide

Member

Re: Who are you

Now it's clear why you didn't opt for the full lifetime subscription.

...and you had the nerve to suggest that I am financially irrresponsible? I live WELL within my means. It appears at your age you still can't! All that education and the letters at the end of your name didn't amount to too much did it? While your earning up enough bagging groceries to make the small amount of money to come back, we'll all be here...

So glad my little thread inspired you to start this embarassing bickering.

EgonArbus

Member

Re: Who are you

Art is in the eye of the beholder.  And I signed up because I thought the stuff Head gave as a 'come on' was enough for a trial. 

As I said in a way previous post I have a PHD in consumer buying. (Pretty Hard to Disappoint).   So I opted for a 3 month renewable top o the line access.  Been here a year, very satisfied.

Your decision to splash out a big whack of cash for a life membership was not all that wise.  Points to lack of impulse control.  I used to have that kind of grandiose self indulgence when I was younger and under the influence of self administered chemical lifestyle enhancement.  The buyers remorse you express tries to shift the blame to Head for following standard marketing practise which you as a photographer should have been 'naturally programmed' to know all about.

It must be refreshing to the young women posting their fragile secret selves here to have their efforts likened to "a bunch of hack photos of a self made 'beaver shoot'."  and then further liken it to a "cheap bottom of the barrel copy of mainstream porn." 

They must be slavering for your "positive suggestions that would make  . . . a better shoot."

You feel that  ' as a photographer I am naturally programmed to bring out the 'beauty' in a subject, what I think may be artistic about a subject."

As a photographer - based on these quotes, I think you are at most a camera mechanic.  You have no idea what the 'art' in photographing beautiful women is.  It is NOT the form as SCSIgirl knows well.  It is the human dimension in context with the situation that gives rise to beauty, the grace under stressful moments, the courage of being naked and nude to a world that generally forbids it. 

Yes some of the photos are hack quality.  It is to be expected - after all the shooters are not even calling themselves photographers. 

Nor by the way does the site call them that. 

And the conceit that one can be naturally programmed to some line of work is an absurdity.  People choose their work, and sometimes choose wrong.  But it remains choice, not programming, - and may I mention the number of hack programs out in the IT world. 

Programmed is a bad attribute to apply to yourself; particularly as programming excludes choice, thought, critical judgement, the art process itself.  Every programmed output should be predictable - the very antithesis of art, which should astonish with newness, creativity, fresh insight, beauty even.

So to hold them up to your standards for beautiful photography is an absurdity, and your lack of ability to see the real beauty is astonishing.

I think your whole reason for being here is an ego trip.

As I said before - small head  huge ego.  Something's gotta blow.  Someone ought to apologise and blow too.

And in case you can't figger this out, this is a flame.  My last one. 

I believe you are a self congratulating under educated fool, incapable of impulse control, introspection, or even ordinary civility.  Not really worthy of anybody's time.

Ohhh, from the "heteroclitic" to the homo-phallic in one feigned swoop!

What is to be done then, with such sleek, filled-in surfaces, with such absolute totalities? Turn them all inside out at once? Subvert them? Revolutionise them? Such is the tragedy of the modernists.  Oh, what a lovely paradox! By means of the critical spirit, the moderns have invented at one and the same time the total system, the total revolution to put an end to the system, and the equally total failure to carry out that revolution - a failure that leaves them in total postmodern despair!

Or maybe he's just been over-gorging on these beautiful toys?

Anyway, I think someone should reward this guy with a fresh fanny shot just to keep the fantasy alive (and make sure it's real close)!

EgonArbus

Member

Re: Who are you

Just an aside:

- I'm neither old enough nor versed enough to be certain, but wasn't it the Russians who beat the Germans (thus liberating Europe)?

MrPicMe

Member

Re: Who are you

Just an aside:

- I'm neither old enough nor versed enough to be certain, but wasn't it the Russians who beat the Germans (thus liberating Europe)?

Allied forces.

MrPicMe

Member

Re: Who are you

Just an aside:

- I'm neither old enough nor versed enough to be certain, but wasn't it the Russians who beat the Germans (thus liberating Europe)?

Allied forces: Russia, France, British Empire, Italy, United States, Japan, Rumania, Serbia, Belgium, Greece, Portugal, Montenegro.