#1 June 9th, 2005 07:06 AM

Candide

Member

Who are you

Hi everyone, this is one of the most fascinating websites I have ever come across. But I am curious, who are the women putting these photos of themselves on this site? Why are you doing this (the profiles of each of you hardly answer that question)? You seem like normal, everyday, next door people but I can't imagine anyone I know personally doing something like this. Do you get a kick out of this, is it a kind of therapy? Is it political? Aren't you afraid people you know will recognise you, like your boss, or maybe your parents? I need to know!

I love you all, by the way. You are true heroines.

Belgareth

Member

Re: Who are you

Hi everyone, this is one of the most fascinating websites I have ever come across. But I am curious, who are the women putting these photos of themselves on this site? Why are you doing this (the profiles of each of you hardly answer that question)? You seem like normal, everyday, next door people but I can't imagine anyone I know personally doing something like this. Do you get a kick out of this, is it a kind of therapy? Is it political? Aren't you afraid people you know will recognise you, like your boss, or maybe your parents? I need to know!

I love you all, by the way. You are true heroines.

Sorry that I've got my two pen'orth in before the ladies have had a chance to answer. Obviously I can't answer any of your questions but I can say that I do know a couple of girls-next-door types who would enter into ethos of ISM and shoot themselves without thinking twice about it and they epitomise the sort of ladies we have as contributors on this site.

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jayhammer

Member

Re: Who are you

Can't wait to hear all the responses I know if I was any of the artists bosses I would give them a big raise!! I mean the more money kind of raise. I would have put the acronym for (laugh at loud) but I agree tyhe term is way over used and I don't want to get Lindra mad at me I love this site and the woemn here are all beautiful and there is nothing more natural than this thanks to all of the artists.

Head

Member

Re: Who are you

Aren't you afraid people you know will recognise you, like your boss, or maybe your parents?.

So what if they did?  That is the whole point of the Project.

Candide

Member

Re: Who are you

So what if they did? They might get fired or ostracised or whatever. Mind you, I am not judging, I am just being realistic.

You say it's the whole point of the project. So it ís political?

charisma-lee

Member

Re: Who are you

So what if they did? They might get fired or ostracised or whatever. Mind you, I am not judging, I am just being realistic.

You say it's the whole point of the project. So it ís political?

Pfft! Screw politics, I did it for liberation. As for getting fired; unfair dismissal, anyone?

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Charisma-Lee

Head

Member

Re: Who are you

So what if they did? They might get fired or ostracised or whatever. Mind you, I am not judging, I am just being realistic.

You say it's the whole point of the project. So it ís political?

I wouldn't work for any company which would fire me for something I did on my own time.  I assume you're American, isn't there some constitutional ammendment about that kind of thing?

It's not political insofar as we're not looking to change any system or statutes.  In fact I personally don't care whether ISM changes anybody's attitudes.  But we live in a culture of hypocrisy which will prevail so long as people are afraid to do what they want for fear of judgement by the mainstream.

MrPicMe

Member

Re: Who are you

But we live in a culture of hypocrisy which will prevail so long as people are afraid to do what they want for fear of judgement by the mainstream.

Just wondering why I recieve a "stoning" from this "broadminded" ISM comunity if I speak about how I dislike a woman with too much hair on her bum, or has discharge to creamy for MY "taste"? It's like when I tell the models their fingernails are filthy. It's just a matter of suggestion and personal taste. I never said she was ugly.

Candide

Member

Re: Who are you

Pfft! Screw politics, I did it for liberation. As for getting fired; unfair dismissal, anyone?

Fair enough. Have you been recognised by anyone? Have friends, familymembers, collegues or neighbours discovered your contribution on ISM? If so, what was the reaction?

Candide

Member

Re: Who are you

I wouldn't work for any company which would fire me for something I did on my own time.  I assume you're American, isn't there some constitutional ammendment about that kind of thing?

It's not political insofar as we're not looking to change any system or statutes.  In fact I personally don't care whether ISM changes anybody's attitudes.  But we live in a culture of hypocrisy which will prevail so long as people are afraid to do what they want for fear of judgement by the mainstream.

So it IS political in a way. I am Dutch, by the way. Holland is fairly liberal in matters of sexuality, I am also a naturist and know many other naturists, but I don't think many among them would make a contribution on this site. But you never know. I might encounter one of them here sometime in the future.

wantingscott

Member

Re: Who are you

Holland is fairly liberal in matters of sexuality, I am also a naturis...

would you yourself feel tempted to post a folio? and if so, what holds you back? simply the fear of recognition? or is it more?

i wanted to post a folio, but i'm a dude, so i couldn't...

wscott

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_________________________________________________
that's the way it goes. but don't forget, it goes the other way too.

Head

Member

Re: Who are you

Just wondering why I recieve a "stoning" from this "broadminded" ISM comunity if I speak about how I dislike a woman with too much hair on her bum, or has discharge to creamy for MY "taste"? It's like when I tell the models their fingernails are filthy. It's just a matter of suggestion and personal taste. I never said she was ugly.

Because what you like is irrelevant and to tell someone you don't like (something about) them is puerile, self-centred and offensive.  Let's say your crew crack a keg then get down for some skinnydipping.  You drop your shorts and someone points and says "ugh, dude, I don't like your dick much" or "your back is all hairy".   Would you (a) tell them to fuck off, (b) get offended and decide to go wave your tackle at some other party, or (c) apologise and promise to shave your back and get some penoplasty before next time?  Meanwhile your broadminded friends would quietly appreciate the diversity and go about bombing the dweeb, like at any pool party.

And what on earth makes you think any girl would clean her fingernails because some random guy suggests it?  Obviously her prioirites are different from yours, and from any other guy who might like her to keep them dirtier, or cut them off, or attach aacrylic extensions and paint Old Glory on them. 

This is not a model show.  These people are not holding themselves up as paradigms of taste or grooming or body shape or any other thing, they are just here to show themselves exactly as they are, <i>without fear of judgement</i>, and that is what ISM is for.  If you don't like them as they are, be quiet or go somewhere else.

Does that help?  Sorry it's not in the FAQ we just think it's RFO. (Really Fucking Obvious).

voyeur2

Member

Re: Who are you

would you yourself feel tempted to post a folio? and if so, what holds you back? simply the fear of recognition? or is it more?

i wanted to post a folio, but i'm a dude, so i couldn't...

wscott

Me too on the folio thang, but alas, I know as in the case made by WScott; I am more than likely to be just a dud.

As to Head and his (her?) response to MrPickMe I think he is right on the money.  I can only add that IMHO (hee hee - not so 'umble as all that) there are a number of individuals who think the world is there for their convenience. As if some woman in Australia would trim her nails to the American standard of some dude in Philadelphia or wherever.  Too much ego in too small a head, something's gotta blow.

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Have I ever lied to you before?

zille

Member

Re: Who are you

So it IS political in a way. I am Dutch, by the way. Holland is fairly liberal in matters of sexuality, I am also a naturist and know many other naturists, but I don't think many among them would make a contribution on this site. But you never know. I might encounter one of them here sometime in the future.

Hi Candide,

I think there is a world of difference between naturists and girls who are comfy posing nude on the internet.

Most of us do not think of ourselves as "naturists," "nudists," whatever names one wants to call it, although many of us like to be naked when we feel like being naked.  I know for myself that when summer comes in, it's hard for me to keep my clothes on.  But the naturist view, from what I understand, is "this is natural and normal -- being naked is healthy and beneficial and fun!"  The only thing in common for gals-with-cameras is the "fun."  When you are making art, there is a certain amount of artiface, which is the opposite of normal (it may indeed be normal to be naked all the time, but it is not normal to be walking around doing self-portaits all the time!)  "Shooting yourself" for ISM (or for your lover's private image collection, or whatever) is certainly, in my mind, healthy and beneficial, but that is often not really the concern of the self-portraitist.  At the time of the shooting and the nudity, she is focused on making images, on not getting caught (in a bad way), and sometimes, on how aroused she is.  Making these pictures, is in the end, about arousal, or Project_ISM wouldn't make much money.  Naturism holds as it's goal that it is not about sex, it's just about healthy nudity.  This nudity is healthy, but it is also about sex.

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~See more of me at http://zilledefeu.com

MrPicMe

Member

Re: Who are you

Because what you like is irrelevant and to tell someone you don't like (something about) them is puerile, self-centred and offensive.  Let's say your crew crack a keg then get down for some skinnydipping.  You drop your shorts and someone points and says "ugh, dude, I don't like your dick much" or "your back is all hairy".   Would you (a) tell them to fuck off, (b) get offended and decide to go wave your tackle at some other party, or (c) apologise and promise to shave your back and get some penoplasty before next time?  Meanwhile your broadminded friends would quietly appreciate the diversity and go about bombing the dweeb, like at any pool party.

And what on earth makes you think any girl would clean her fingernails because some random guy suggests it?  Obviously her prioirites are different from yours, and from any other guy who might like her to keep them dirtier, or cut them off, or attach aacrylic extensions and paint Old Glory on them. 

This is not a model show.  These people are not holding themselves up as paradigms of taste or grooming or body shape or any other thing, they are just here to show themselves exactly as they are, <i>without fear of judgement</i>, and that is what ISM is for.  If you don't like them as they are, be quiet or go somewhere else.

Does that help?  Sorry it's not in the FAQ we just think it's RFO. (Really Fucking Obvious).

HEAD,

Is it fair to compare, in your words, a "skinny dip beer party" to ISM? If I was at said party, I wouldn't be calling freedom from clothing "art" and setting up a forum for onlookers to give opinion.(or is that all the standards are for an ISM contributor?) However, As you might recall in a previous posts I made, I felt we ALL should be contributors to ISM project.(Including yourself) In fact, I put myself farther out there than any male member of ISM. Haven't I? Bottom line, if I felt my self-esteem wasn't in check, and I didn't think I could take criticism, I wouldn't put my ass out on the world wide web. What drew me into ISM was the ARTISTIC side of shooting oneself, and the celebration of the human form.(As seen in the examples on the home page designed to draw you in before you sign up) I don't feel, however, throwing ones legs open to a bunch of onlookers deems artistic credence. Let's face it HEAD, the substandard "beaver-shoot" material that you allow up here, all too often, is just a waste of our time and my money. If all I wanted to see was a bunch of hack photos of a self made "beaver shoot", I would have picked up a cheap bottom of the barrel copy of mainstream porn.

Now you know I never said ISM had to be a beauty contest; however, as a photographer, I am naturally programed to bring out the "beauty" in a subject and add what i think maybe artistic about a subject. I have seen many pretty subjects with much more potential as a"model"/"artist" with little guidance attempt to make an artistic shoot of themselves. As you might have noticed, I have attempted to give possitive suggestions that would make, in my opinion, a better shoot.

...To show you I will put my money were my mouth is, at any time, feel free to debit my credit card for the difference of a downgrade to the month to month status, and I will take a hike.

wantingscott

Member

Re: Who are you

...To show you I will put my money were my mouth is, at any time, feel free to debit my credit card for the difference of a downgrade to the month to month status, and I will take a hike.

MPM,
you mean, credit. right? downgrade and credit your card? lets not pretend you're martyring. basically, is that all it is, a bever-shoot to you? there hasn't been at some point any spiritual awakening where you've said to yourself "wow. i've seen EXACTLY how that girl/woman sees herself when she looks in the mirror."

Scott

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_________________________________________________
that's the way it goes. but don't forget, it goes the other way too.

charisma-lee

Member

Re: Who are you

Fair enough. Have you been recognised by anyone? Have friends, familymembers, collegues or neighbours discovered your contribution on ISM? If so, what was the reaction?

Not as yet, but my close friends know about it & their reactions have all been positive. If, for example, my parents were to see it, the reaction would probably be a little different, but that won't change the fact that I'm proud to have contributed to ISM.

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Charisma-Lee

Candide

Member

Re: Who are you

Hi Candide,

I think there is a world of difference between naturists and girls who are comfy posing nude on the internet.

Most of us do not think of ourselves as "naturists," "nudists," whatever names one wants to call it, although many of us like to be naked when we feel like being naked.  I know for myself that when summer comes in, it's hard for me to keep my clothes on.  But the naturist view, from what I understand, is "this is natural and normal -- being naked is healthy and beneficial and fun!"  The only thing in common for gals-with-cameras is the "fun."  When you are making art, there is a certain amount of artiface, which is the opposite of normal (it may indeed be normal to be naked all the time, but it is not normal to be walking around doing self-portaits all the time!)  "Shooting yourself" for ISM (or for your lover's private image collection, or whatever) is certainly, in my mind, healthy and beneficial, but that is often not really the concern of the self-portraitist.  At the time of the shooting and the nudity, she is focused on making images, on not getting caught (in a bad way), and sometimes, on how aroused she is.  Making these pictures, is in the end, about arousal, or Project_ISM wouldn't make much money.  Naturism holds as it's goal that it is not about sex, it's just about healthy nudity.  This nudity is healthy, but it is also about sex.

Hello Zille and my compliments for your amazing photographs, by the way (composition and colour are amazing). It strikes me that most contributors really know how to handle a camera.

I realise the difference between naturists and the people on ISM, of course. Although I think many naturists are a little hypocrital about the non-sexuality part of naturism, to be honest. There is at least a sensuous quality to naturism and the louder naturists yell there's not, the more convinced I get there is. Very much.

But what I meant is that maybe naturists would more easily photograph themselves like on ISM. Because this seems to be out body-acceptance for a large part too. I don't know if many female visitors frequent this site but they should, because it's refreshing to see people not being bothered by -maybe even being proud of- the size of their labia, the amount of pubic hair, their potbellies and so on. It's great, and such self confidence is also absolutely sexy.

And this is where I think ISM touches on naturist themes as well. But obviously you are way ahead of naturists, having gotten rid of all the imposed inhibitions and the hypocrisy regarding nudity and sexuality.

I salute you for it.

Candide

Member

Re: Who are you

Not as yet, but my close friends know about it & their reactions have all been positive. If, for example, my parents were to see it, the reaction would probably be a little different, but that won't change the fact that I'm proud to have contributed to ISM.

Hi Charisma-lee (and what an apt name you have), why exactly are you proud of it?

charisma-lee

Member

Re: Who are you

Hi Charisma-lee (and what an apt name you have), why exactly are you proud of it?

I know a lot of people don't have the courage to do something which would make them feel as free as ISM does, & I never pictured myself ever being so uninhibited as to do something like this, but I'm so glad that I have because it's been a huge confidence-builder for me.

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Charisma-Lee

zille

Member

Re: Who are you

Hello Zille and my compliments for your amazing photographs, by the way (composition and colour are amazing). It strikes me that most contributors really know how to handle a camera.

I realise the difference between naturists and the people on ISM, of course. Although I think many naturists are a little hypocrital about the non-sexuality part of naturism, to be honest. There is at least a sensuous quality to naturism and the louder naturists yell there's not, the more convinced I get there is. Very much.

But what I meant is that maybe naturists would more easily photograph themselves like on ISM. Because this seems to be out body-acceptance for a large part too. I don't know if many female visitors frequent this site but they should, because it's refreshing to see people not being bothered by -maybe even being proud of- the size of their labia, the amount of pubic hair, their potbellies and so on. It's great, and such self confidence is also absolutely sexy.

And this is where I think ISM touches on naturist themes as well. But obviously you are way ahead of naturists, having gotten rid of all the imposed inhibitions and the hypocrisy regarding nudity and sexuality.

I salute you for it.

Thank you, Candide, and I am delighted to see another intelligent, well-spoken sort on the boards here (to counter-balance, as it were...)

I should hope that naturists would join in the ISM fun.  But it seems to me that they are sort of a "previous generation" to the girls on this site (and the ones who just post images of their boobies online for fun.)  I think the naturist movement helped to produce people who are so happily inhibited today, and as all "next generations" go, they take a step forward, accepting their sexuality along with nudity.  But these people don't bother to call themselves naturists -- they just take it for granted, it is not a big thing anymore.

It's the same way with the "swingers."  People my age and younger never call themselves swingers, they just have sex with multiple people in various combinations without worrying about it.  In fact, most of them avoid swinger events (for various reasons, such as swingers having a rather "dated" attitude about things.)

So, the naturists being succesful in teaching people to be happy naked, are really sorta killing off their own movement.  But that's a good thing in the end -- let's all look forward to a time when no one is inhibited about their bodies or their sexualities!!!

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~See more of me at http://zilledefeu.com

Belgareth

Member

Re: Who are you

Thank you, Candide, and I am delighted to see another intelligent, well-spoken sort on the boards here (to counter-balance, as it were...)

I should hope that naturists would join in the ISM fun.  But it seems to me that they are sort of a "previous generation" to the girls on this site (and the ones who just post images of their boobies online for fun.)  I think the naturist movement helped to produce people who are so happily inhibited today, and as all "next generations" go, they take a step forward, accepting their sexuality along with nudity.  But these people don't bother to call themselves naturists -- they just take it for granted, it is not a big thing anymore.

It's the same way with the "swingers."  People my age and younger never call themselves swingers, they just have sex with multiple people in various combinations without worrying about it.  In fact, most of them avoid swinger events (for various reasons, such as swingers having a rather "dated" attitude about things.)

So, the naturists being succesful in teaching people to be happy naked, are really sorta killing off their own movement.  But that's a good thing in the end -- let's all look forward to a time when no one is inhibited about their bodies or their sexualities!!!

I don't think that we will ever reach a time when no-one is inhibited about their own body or their sexuality. There will always be people who are not comfortable with themselves.

I was considered to be weird because I never could see anything wrong in my body nor anyone elses being naked and I still can't. If I have a naked female next to me, I don't immediately get sexual urges just because she is naked. In fact, that is more likely to occur when the same body is wearing clothes. In my opinion, nakedness and sexual arousal do not go hand in hand (except in pornographic circles), therefore there is nothing wrong with any form of nudity.

Despite the fact that I was taken to task on more than one occasion, during my mid to late teens, simply because my two of my female cousins, of a similar age, and myself were found running around naked in both house and garden, I think to this day that it was our respective parents who were inhibited and not the three of us who were immoral. As a consequence, I was adamant that my children should be brought up to accept nudity as a perfectly normal thing within the home. Sadly, their attitude towards nudity as adults is not reflected in their friends or their partners.

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Candide

Member

Re: Who are you

Thank you, Candide, and I am delighted to see another intelligent, well-spoken sort on the boards here (to counter-balance, as it were...)

I should hope that naturists would join in the ISM fun.  But it seems to me that they are sort of a "previous generation" to the girls on this site (and the ones who just post images of their boobies online for fun.)  I think the naturist movement helped to produce people who are so happily inhibited today, and as all "next generations" go, they take a step forward, accepting their sexuality along with nudity.  But these people don't bother to call themselves naturists -- they just take it for granted, it is not a big thing anymore.

It's the same way with the "swingers."  People my age and younger never call themselves swingers, they just have sex with multiple people in various combinations without worrying about it.  In fact, most of them avoid swinger events (for various reasons, such as swingers having a rather "dated" attitude about things.)

So, the naturists being succesful in teaching people to be happy naked, are really sorta killing off their own movement.  But that's a good thing in the end -- let's all look forward to a time when no one is inhibited about their bodies or their sexualities!!!

That's an interesting angle, Zille, regarding naturism as a 'phase' in the development towards an uninhibited attitude towards nudity and sexuality. Of course Belgareth is right in saying that there will always be people with inhibitions. Certainly in Europe, where all kinds of fundamentalist variants of christianity and islam are flourishing again these days, public nudity is not as accepted as it was, say, 15 years ago.

I have always found swingers to have something very saddening, depressing even, about them. There's something really unspontaneous about them. They act like they are freefought rebels, but in fact swingers are bourgeous conformists.

I must say I personally consider sex as something very special, almost sacred even. I don't know if I would ever have it with different people at the same time. I am not sure I want to be liberated from that. But it's certainly not something we should keep behind locked doors, to be done in secret like some satanistic ritual, something forbidden, a dirty sin.

Boy, I really am impressed with this site and the fact that people like you, Zille, really have something valid to say. That it's not just about showing your fanny and have a good giggle about it.

And that's just a bonus to the sheer, pure beauty one is treated on here.

Keep up the good work!

voyeur2

Member

Re: Who are you

MPM,
you mean, credit. right? downgrade and credit your card? lets not pretend you're martyring. basically, is that all it is, a bever-shoot to you? there hasn't been at some point any spiritual awakening where you've said to yourself "wow. i've seen EXACTLY how that girl/woman sees herself when she looks in the mirror."

Scott

WS, I think he is hoping for a refund and is making himself obnoxious from time to time to get there.  I think life is a better sentence.  He will tire of - from his point of view - bad beaver, and eventually quit logging in to the site.  Head, keep his dough.  Let the flames rise up, it's fun flaming.  I feel no remorse, and the intellectual challenge is a joke.  Almost like picking on a midget.  Play on!  Dump the puck in and chase it in the corners is my style.  If I can't take the heat I sit on the bench.

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Have I ever lied to you before?

voyeur2

Member

Re: Who are you

WS, I think he is hoping for a refund and is making himself obnoxious from time to time to get there.  I think life is a better sentence.  He will tire of - from his point of view - bad beaver, and eventually quit logging in to the site.  Head, keep his dough.  Let the flames rise up, it's fun flaming.  I feel no remorse, and the intellectual challenge is a joke.  Almost like picking on a midget.  Play on!  Dump the puck in and chase it in the corners is my style.  If I can't take the heat I sit on the bench.

And as far as taking the heat, see my post on another thread.  The women posting to this site are willing to take the heat for their personal choice of risking 'exposure'.  The cool bit aint the tit, it's the face.  There is the person daring anyone to come up and comment to them - even people who know them, even - heaven forbid - if they become famous in a very distant and repressive future.  I can see the tabloid headlines.  SEE WHAZZERNAME NUDE!!!
Takes real balls to do that.  My hat's off.

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Have I ever lied to you before?