#1 March 2nd, 2004 03:40 PM

eric79

Member

Videos?

When are the videos coming?

Head

Member

Re: Videos?

When are the videos coming?

The first will be out within a week, all things going well.

thylacine

Member

Re: Videos?

The first will be out within a week, all things going well.

What format are you going to use? Something that will work well across all platforms, including Mac users like myself, I hope? An example of a good idea poorly implemented due to format problems is the Beautiful Agony site you recommended. The .wmv previews are utterly inaccessible no matter what I do, even though I have the Windows Media Player installed.

And resumable downloads for those of us still struggling along with dial-up connections would be nice. A number of times I've been 80 or 90% through downloading a zipped folder when your server has suddenly stopped functioning for no obvious reason. Having to then start a download all over again on a slow connection is a pain in the backside!

_matt_

Member

Re: Videos?

I completeley agree regarding the unsuitability of using the WMV format for a cross-platform audience. (and yes, this is a huge problem with the Beautiful Agony site.)

The latest version of the Windows Media codec is totally unplayable on a Mac regardless of whether you have the plug-in installed or not. Previous versions are playable (although in a very buggy fashion) thru the use of various 3rd party shareware media players.

In fact, installing the Windows Media player on the Mac actually renders other previously playable formats UNPLAYABLE. Check the OS X feedback on Versiontracker.com for Windows Media Player :

http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/morei … ck&vid=All

ANY other format would be preferable to Windows media. AVI, MPEG, etc...

I have never been able to view Windows Media with any degree of quality or reliability on the Mac. I am an artist who works with digital audio & video and thus am knowlegeable regarding the technology involved. I imagine this sort of thing would be even more of a headache to troubleshoot for a viewer who is not familiar with codecs, plug-ins, etc.

Head

Member

Re: Videos?

I completeley agree regarding the unsuitability of using the WMV format for a cross-platform audience. (and yes, this is a huge problem with the Beautiful Agony site.)

The latest version of the Windows Media codec is totally unplayable on a Mac regardless of whether you have the plug-in installed or not. Previous versions are playable (although in a very buggy fashion) thru the use of various 3rd party shareware media players.

In fact, installing the Windows Media player on the Mac actually renders other previously playable formats UNPLAYABLE. Check the OS X feedback on Versiontracker.com for Windows Media Player :

http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/morei … ck&vid=All

ANY other format would be preferable to Windows media. AVI, MPEG, etc...

I have never been able to view Windows Media with any degree of quality or reliability on the Mac. I am an artist who works with digital audio & video and thus am knowlegeable regarding the technology involved. I imagine this sort of thing would be even more of a headache to troubleshoot for a viewer who is not familiar with codecs, plug-ins, etc.

Matt, thanks for the info.  We'll probably go with MPEG and Beautfula Agony will be offering alternatives soon too.  Is  any particular MPEG flavour which is preferable?  Is it built into OSX or is it a plugin?

stuart

Member

Re: Videos?

We'll probably go with MPEG

Have you considered the XviD format which is arguably one of the best MPEG video compression formats available? High quality and low file sizes make it a popular choice for ripping DVDs.

You can find out more here:
http://www.xvid.org

I hope this helps. FWIW, I'd be over the moon if you distributed your videos in this format ;-)

thylacine

Member

Re: Videos?

Matt, thanks for the info.  We'll probably go with MPEG and Beautfula Agony will be offering alternatives soon too.  Is  any particular MPEG flavour which is preferable?  Is it built into OSX or is it a plugin?

That's welcome news. The .WMV format is second in ghastliness only to the Real Movie format!

The latest QuickTime Player for both the Classic Mac OS and for Mac OS X have MPEG 4 as a native format, as well as QuickTime. You can find further details at:

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/products … tions.html

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/

The QuickTime Player comes with the OS, but users of the Classic Mac OS (which is probably still more than half of all Mac users) may need to download QuickTime 6.0.2.

Mustang

Member

Re: Videos?

Not for the Mac users out there, although I feel your pain...

There is a open-source project for a video player called "Media Player Classic", that is super-small, only uses 1 file, and playes QuickTime, MPEG, AVI, Real Audio/Video, and a few others (no DIVX yet...) 

A friend turned me on to it, and I have been using it for about a month now, really like it...

http://sourceforge.net/projects/guliverkli/

Scroll down to see the download section, and look for Media Player Classic...

_matt_

Member

Re: Videos?

Matt, thanks for the info.  We'll probably go with MPEG and Beautfula Agony will be offering alternatives soon too.  Is  any particular MPEG flavour which is preferable?  Is it built into OSX or is it a plugin?

Any of the older or more common MPEG formats will be fine on the Mac.

MPEG 4 is now natively supported and would be a good choice (excellent image quality & small file sizes) but I am not sure what the current status of Windows support is for this format.

http://www.apple.com/mpeg4/

The other links that thylacine provided are a good source of info regarding what other formats are natively supported on the Mac via Quicktime.

invader314

Member

Re: Videos?

As another Mac user, I'd so like to agree with the others, WMV format and Windows Media Player just don't work on a Mac. While the oppisite Quicktime for Windows works very well.
You could also consider taking the route that NakedNews did and post both.

walden2001

Member

Re: Videos?

Hi, a while back when you first mentioned the site re-design, I was a bit worried about your video format. And my worst fears were realized, upon it's launch when your sign up page lists WMV as your video format.  A lot of work looks to have gone into the redesign, and it is fantastic.... a vast improvement on before. Well done.     So much to compliment, ...but your forums do give voice to constructive critisism, and although I was going to keep quiet, it looks like a lot of others in the mac community, also have a few worries.
Windows media player isn't very friendly to other operating systems.  Sure it will work fine to the majority of the general population who use standard p.c's, but you will really cut into some of your subscriptions if you don't offer an alternative as well.

Quicktime, does the job for all platforms, simply and easily. Most sites offer both and if it's not too late, to build this into the video section, I would highly reccommend it. 

Have you noticed the huge interest in the video component??? And it's not even up yet!!! Wow!

Beautiful Agony is an excellent site, (apart from the clunky WMV files) and I was wondering are you connected to it in anyway.?.. you seem to have an insiders knowledge of it's workings.  If so, will we see artists from ISM over at Beautiful Agony?  Might be nice.
It's a pity, they are running with the limitation of no-nudity... kinda seems restrictive after all that they are giving.  Also, is it only me, or does it seem a bit impersonal?   ISM lets us in on names, ages, interests, occupations and thoughts of the artists.  I like that.  Feels somewhat more intimate.  Beautiful Agony just gives clinical numbers to each video. No Forum, comments section or anything. ... What's up with that? ?? For what it's worth, I've created names for them all, for want of something better to do.

Anyway, Great new look to the site.  Fantastic that ISM is doing everything so well.  It's really become so much better since I used to first visit way back in August of 2003.  If I recall, it wasn't very mac friendly way back then, but with excellent feedback and forums, the initial bugs of viewing folios etc, were very quickly ironed out.  I'm hoping, and looking forward to seeing the new developments; videos, overload, duets etc broaden and set new standards for a quality site. Well done
Walden.

Head

Member

Re: Videos?

OK well thanks for all the opinions on video formats. We've decided, initially anyway, to go with MPG here at ISM. As the video side of things develops and the videos get longer (i.e. as we get better at editing) we might add one of the more esoteric but efficient formats as well. Our main aim though will be to always have a universal format.

As for Beautiful Agony, I believe the *ahem* clever people over there will soon be switching also.

Thanks also for the encouragement on the site design. Most of the last 36 hours have been spent testing, fixing and answering complaint emails, so it's nice to get some positive interaction. As for the aesthetic design, I had little to do with that, but I believe the person responsible might have left clues as to her identity somewhere on the site. No poaching, she's ours.

lipsticgrrl

Member

Re: Videos?

Hey Walden, I think you're right.  Agonee #8 looks like "MissyTrash" to me.  And #14 could be "charlotte" with a hangover.

fatquack

Member

Re: Videos?

OK well thanks for all the opinions on video formats. We've decided, initially anyway, to go with MPG here at ISM. As the video side of things develops and the videos get longer (i.e. as we get better at editing) we might add one of the more esoteric but efficient formats as well. Our main aim though will be to always have a universal format.

And as a Linux user I welcome this decision too, although Mplayer does play about everything you care to throw at it, my computer is not the fastest on the block and playing WMV makes it not happy.

And for the Mac OS10 users: there is an Mplayer for you too, and it plays Windows mediacrap better than the Windows Mediaplayer for Mac :-)

FQ

techobo

Member

Re: Videos?

If you download an app called VLC Player, you can view .wmv and most .avi files on a mac. You can get it from www.versiontracker.com. I remember being pretty frustrated too, but relief is in sight.
-Techobo

What format are you going to use? Something that will work well across all platforms, including Mac users like myself, I hope? An example of a good idea poorly implemented due to format problems is the Beautiful Agony site you recommended. The .wmv previews are utterly inaccessible no matter what I do, even though I have the Windows Media Player installed.

And resumable downloads for those of us still struggling along with dial-up connections would be nice. A number of times I've been 80 or 90% through downloading a zipped folder when your server has suddenly stopped functioning for no obvious reason. Having to then start a download all over again on a slow connection is a pain in the backside!

spigly

Member

Re: Videos?

The first will be out within a week, all things going well.

    Any idea which girls will be featured in the first vids

Head

Member

Re: Videos?

Any idea which girls will be featured in the first vids

First up will be Missy_Trash but we also have contributions from Bethany, Cle, Popple, Mog, Elise, Jamie, Callie and others.

spigly

Member

Re: Videos?

First up will be Missy_Trash but we also have contributions from Bethany, Cle, Popple, Mog, Elise, Jamie, Callie and others.

Great can't wait,especially the Bethany one, Hurry Hurry Hurry

thylacine

Member

Re: Videos?

Good to see the first video posted, but sorry to see that the technical quality was very poor and that there are problems downloading it.

I don't know if the video has been over compressed, it's the fault of the MPEG 1 format or what. But the end result is that the picture is constantly breaking up throughout the video.

Whilst the download zip link works fine, the play video link doesn't seem to be working properly. At least not for this Mac user. Normally when I click on a link like that a QuickTime player appears in the browser page, information about how much has been downloaded appears at the bottom during the download, then the video plays and, if I want to, I can save the video to the desktop. When I clicked your link none of that happened. All I got after 25 minutes the two times I tried was the QuickTime ripped negative icon which indicates that a video download has failed.

Sorry to be negative about what I think is a good idea, but you still need to do a bit of work to realise the full potential of the idea. One thing I would suggest is to use MPEG 4 instead of MPEG 1. I don't know if your Media Player handles that okay. If not Windows users can download the free QuickTime Player from Apple which does.

spigly

Member

Re: Videos?

Good to see the first video posted, but sorry to see that the technical quality was very poor and that there are problems downloading it.

I don't know if the video has been over compressed, it's the fault of the MPEG 1 format or what. But the end result is that the picture is constantly breaking up throughout the video.

Whilst the download zip link works fine, the play video link doesn't seem to be working properly. At least not for this Mac user. Normally when I click on a link like that a QuickTime player appears in the browser page, information about how much has been downloaded appears at the bottom during the download, then the video plays and, if I want to, I can save the video to the desktop. When I clicked your link none of that happened. All I got after 25 minutes the two times I tried was the QuickTime ripped negative icon which indicates that a video download has failed.

Sorry to be negative about what I think is a good idea, but you still need to do a bit of work to realise the full potential of the idea. One thing I would suggest is to use MPEG 4 instead of MPEG 1. I don't know if your Media Player handles that okay. If not Windows users can download the free QuickTime Player from Apple which does.

Played fine on Windows Media player

Head

Member

Re: Videos?

Good to see the first video posted, but sorry to see that the technical quality was very poor and that there are problems downloading it.

I don't know if the video has been over compressed, it's the fault of the MPEG 1 format or what. But the end result is that the picture is constantly breaking up throughout the video.

Whilst the download zip link works fine, the play video link doesn't seem to be working properly. At least not for this Mac user. Normally when I click on a link like that a QuickTime player appears in the browser page, information about how much has been downloaded appears at the bottom during the download, then the video plays and, if I want to, I can save the video to the desktop. When I clicked your link none of that happened. All I got after 25 minutes the two times I tried was the QuickTime ripped negative icon which indicates that a video download has failed.

Sorry to be negative about what I think is a good idea, but you still need to do a bit of work to realise the full potential of the idea. One thing I would suggest is to use MPEG 4 instead of MPEG 1. I don't know if your Media Player handles that okay. If not Windows users can download the free QuickTime Player from Apple which does.

If you're running Windows then WMV files will buffer and start playing sooner, and you'll get a status message.  But not everyone can play WMV files properly, so we went with MPG.  The files are quite heavily compressed to reduce the file size which is a compromise that has to be made at some level.  In the future we'll add other formats and one will be a higher quality but bigger file, for those who have good connections.

thylacine

Member

Re: Videos?

If you're running Windows then WMV files will buffer and start playing sooner, and you'll get a status message.  But not everyone can play WMV files properly, so we went with MPG.  The files are quite heavily compressed to reduce the file size which is a compromise that has to be made at some level.  In the future we'll add other formats and one will be a higher quality but bigger file, for those who have good connections.

I don't know if your message was addressed to me or not? If so it doesn't make sense as I'm a Mac user, as I mention in that post and in earlier posts in this thread! I support your use of the MPEG format, albeit I think you should use MPEG 4 rather than MPEG 1. What I am saying is that, for this Mac user at least, the quality of the Missy Trash video is so bad as to be nearly unplayable.

I have something like two and a half thousand videos on my hard drive, from numerous sites and in many different formats, of which virtually every one is of much better quality than the one you posted. All of which I downloaded using an ordinary dial-up connection. So with a bit of practice you too ought to be able to produce something that is of decent quality, but whose file size is of a reasonable size for those not on broadband!

Head

Member

Re: Videos?

I don't know if your message was addressed to me or not? If so it doesn't make sense as I'm a Mac user, as I mention in that post and in earlier posts in this thread! I support your use of the MPEG format, albeit I think you should use MPEG 4 rather than MPEG 1. What I am saying is that, for this Mac user at least, the quality of the Missy Trash video is so bad as to be nearly unplayable.

I have something like two and a half thousand videos on my hard drive, from numerous sites and in many different formats, of which virtually every one is of much better quality than the one you posted. All of which I downloaded using an ordinary dial-up connection. So with a bit of practice you too ought to be able to produce something that is of decent quality, but whose file size is of a reasonable size for those not on broadband!

The reason we chose MPEG1 was that everybody can play it.  I would be interested to see a comparison if you'd email me a sample, something of similar pixel size, similar Kbytes/minute, in MPEG1 format.  We tried various compressions to get something we thought was a reasonable compromise between size and quality, but we'll consider changing if we can improve the quality without drowning in "your videos won't play" emails.

eagler

Member

Re: Videos?

just wondering??  How often will video's be loaded onto the site??

Head

Member

Re: Videos?

just wondering??  How often will video's be loaded onto the site??

Videos will be released weekly.